Sept. 24, 2025

Jason Zinoman on Jimmy Kimmel, Late Night, and the Riyadh Comedy Festival

Jason Zinoman on Jimmy Kimmel, Late Night, and the Riyadh Comedy Festival
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Friend of the Show Jason Zinoman returns to discuss Jimmy Kimmel, Late Night, and the upcoming Riyadh Comedy Festival which includes performers Dave Chappelle, Louis CK, Bill Burr and many other famous names.

Jason is a critic at large for the New York Times where he writes about comedy.

This was recorded on Tuesday before Kimmel aired.  There will be a Kimmel bonus in the feed today (not sure when) and the normal Wednesday episode went out this morning.



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WEBVTT

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Caloroga Shark Media, and there are another bonus episode. My

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guest is Jason Zenniman, friend of the show from the

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New York Times. Jason is critic at large for the

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Culture section of The New York Times. If you listen

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to this podcast, you hear me regularly cite him. I'm

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gonna flip overrom my cards here. Of all the podcasts

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I've done over the last seven years, I think this

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is my favorite episode, and I said it to Jason

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at the end of the interview. We just had a

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fantastic discussion, respectful, deep dive, serious issues, disagreed as friends do.

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I just want to be clear, we both had a

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big smile on our face throughout the entire thing. Everything

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here is friendly, even if sometimes we get into a

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little jousting. But this was a fantastic, smart interview. As

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I host this podcast, and you know, answer the question, well,

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why do you thank you hosted? You've heard me talk

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about what my resume is, and I always say I

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know more about comedy than most people. But the people

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that know more about it than I do know a

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lot more about it. And I will put Jason in

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that camp. I respect all his opinions, as you'll hear

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me say during the interview, and I've said in the

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past he always helps me sort my feelings about things.

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So in this discussion we sure get into the kimmel

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of it all. We get into some other comedy topics

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at the end, like John Marco Siasi. But I asked

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him first hear about the comedy Festival that maybe, like

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a lot of things, I'm the Ralph Kiner of comedy.

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I apparently mispronounced a lot of things. But let's jump in.

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Hey everybody, it's friend of the show. Jason's innoment from

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The New York Times, how you been tired?

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Good time to run a daily comedy news podcast. You've

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picked the right line of work.

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It's been incredible. I've been putting out two three a day,

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and I just I've learned. Yesterday I spoke with Mark

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Malkoff from Inside late night, and I deliberately time stamped

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it because my spidey sense was telling me that the

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news would change five times, and it did before I

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even could publish the darn thing. So I just want

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to let everyone know Jason and I are speaking on

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Tuesday at around ten thirty a m. So if we

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say something, you're like, how cub and I are responding

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to the thing. That's why so much going on. We'll

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get into the kimmel of it all, but that you

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know that new story has changed. Even since I booked you,

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you have helped me in the past sort my feelings.

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And I don't know how I feel about the Rio

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Odd Comedy Festival. I know I'm making crinkly face, and

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usually when I make crinkly face, something is troubling me.

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But to catch the audience up, there's a big festival

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starting on Friday. Some big names performing at the Riodd

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Comedy Festival, including Bill Burr, Mark Norman, Kevin hort Sebastian Manascalco,

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Dave Chappelle, Luis ci K, Gave Iglesias, Jimmy Carr, Whnney Cummings,

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Tom Sigora, Andrew Schiltz, and Jim Jeffries. Normally I wouldn't

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qualify somebody with their sexuality, but it is interesting to

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me that Jessica Curson is performing there. Tim Dillon was

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booked there and was uninvited, and you know the Pete

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Davidson is appearing there and his father notably killed on

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nine to eleven. I don't know how I feel about

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this thing. I like a good paycheck and I'm trying

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to buy a property up at a lake. So I've

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been joking with my business partner that right now, you know,

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Daily Comedy News is brought to you by insert horrible

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joke here. So I don't want to be holier than now.

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You know how much Dylan money?

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How much money were you offered to go and podcast

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at the Rahadi Comedy Festival.

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Oh wait, you're pronouncing it better than me. Say that again.

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Well, I'm proud of wrong. I'm sure. I'm sure that

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at the I'll be there. How the it is? It

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re odd?

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That's how I say it. But I get half the

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comedian names wrong. So what do I know?

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Saudi? Let's all, It's called Saudi. Yeah, you know?

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So what is my price? I don't know? And I

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think that's what I'm struggling with, is the first of all,

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should you even have a price? Is it wrong that

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the comedians are going? There is a paycheck? A paycheck?

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This is I'm struggling with this. And I saw you

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wrote a piece about it. You wrote that the optics

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were never great, but they're and I'm paraphrasing. They're very

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interesting now in light of everybody being a free speech

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warrior over the weekend.

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Yeah, the optics were never were never I mean, the

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optics are never great. But now that although you know,

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and now that free speech is the big issue that

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we're grappling with, now they look even worse. At the

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same time, it's sort of like, who I imagine what

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they could claim or the comedians doing this. And I'm

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also not overly righteous about I think there's these are there.

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It depends what you do. Part One thing is interesting

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is what they do once they're there. But it's also

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you know this, I would say, what's happened in our

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country over the past you know, weeks and months could

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make some people say, who are we to talk the UH?

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And but I mean, of course the I mean for me,

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you know, the bones saw of a journalist who disagreed

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with him, you know, the Washington Post writer kashowge by

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the same people who are sponsoring this festival, would be

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a deal breaker for me to show up at this festival.

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The they're obviously the UH. These people are being offered

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huge amounts of money, and the broader context here is

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that the Saudi government has been doing a kind of

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full court press, not just with comedians, but with athletes

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and golfing events, sporting events. There's all sorts of people

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there and they're making solved. You know, there's some movements

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that they're starting to be you know, shipt a little

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bit in their policies. And so this is just an

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elaborate pr campaign where there is trying to use American

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popular culture and entertainment to you know, make people think

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of them not as the place where they chop up

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people who criticize the government and cracked down on minorities

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and limit women's free speech, but as the new Saudi Arabia.

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And so if you were offered a million dollars, I

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know Tim Dillon was offered, what he said, three hundred

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and seventy five thousand dollars for one show, one night,

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and I think he's on the low end. So if

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you were offered one million dollars to go, would you

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do it? If you if you went and you criticized

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the Saudi government when you were there, would that change

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the calculus. I know you want some guidance from me,

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but I'm afraid I might just give you more anguish

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and confusion. But I think I think it's I say

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I wouldn't do it, but I'm not want to judge.

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That's a lot of money.

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Yeah, so several thoughts there at a personal level. When

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this was first announced, if they had come to me

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and said, hey, I heard you have this really awesome podcast,

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do you want to come cover it, I would have

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said yes and not thought about it. As I've gotten

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deeper into the story and talked about some of the

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news threads and pulling on those, I think I would

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be afraid to go now, even taking the money out

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of it. And I don't know if that's spic about

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the location personally, when I was at Sirius and million

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years ago when the Olympics were in China, there was

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light talk of us doing some radio work over there,

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and people were afraid to go to China. And my

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attitude twenty years ago was I'll go. They're not going

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to lock me up. I'll go. I'll produce it. That'd

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be great. You know, I get to go to China

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on your dime, that'd be awesome. As I continue to

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cover this as a story, I don't you know, I

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don't know, like, yeah, you're some stupid podcaster who cares,

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or you know, when somebody look at me, you know,

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with a sad face. I don't know if I would

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be comfortable going in terms of just pure finances of

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here's a check, want to cover this comedy festival. You know,

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I'll go to the Vancouver Comedy Festival. Yeah. I like money,

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of course I like money. A separate story, I know,

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maybe like third party, but I know of somebody who

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was asked to work at I live golf event and

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the paycheck was crazy, and I said, you know what,

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hold your nose. That's life changing money and you can

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pay off, you know, your college bills and whatever. So

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I'm not taking the moral high ground, but I'm finding

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I think you nailed it as usual. The optics are

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just interesting. I don't know what to do with this.

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I'm really struggling with what's really fascinating about it is

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it's so related to what we're going through. Because on

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one level, you know this, there's the government policies and

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the corporate actors who are being spineless in this country

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about standing up for speech or standing up for their artists.

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But there's another level, and I know a little bit

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of this. You know, I'm the child of a foreign

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service officer. You know I grew up someone in a

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qual and poor right next to Singapore, which has very

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different attitude towards free speech that we do. You know,

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I have Vietnamese members my family. There's all sorts of

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attitudes about government censorship and crack downs are very different.

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That doesn't mean I don't go to the I haven't

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gone to these places, but it makes you think, and

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we're now here, what about from the point of view

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of the artist, of the individual, of the ordinary person

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who's trying to get by is trying to figure out

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that do you try to play within the rules that set?

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Do you play along? Do you cut a deal or

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do you push back? Do you fight? Do you fight?

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Do you draw a line? You know where do if

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you draw a line? Where do you draw a line?

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These were once academic questions. They're no longer academic questions.

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If you work for a law firm in this country

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that cut a deal with Trump, what are you going

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to do? If you work for a university that just

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took away research for cancer, are you going to put

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pressure on your administration? Are you going to write a letter?

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Are you going to say nothing? Are you going to

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try to do what you can in a small way?

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And now our little silly world of comedy, we have

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this great you know, the piece that I talked about

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the Saudi Arabian Festival, you know, was primarily about looking

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at the difference between Kimmel and Fallon. You have late

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night hosts. All right, Clearly there is an attack, you know,

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a government led attack against late night that is you know,

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I would argue unprecedented. You know, there obviously have been

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previous late night shows that have been you know, in

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Broiland controversy, but this is something new. And what do

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you do? Do you push back? Do you do you

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criticize your bosses on air and fear getting taken off?

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Do you try to play along? Do you try to

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make your show more a political These are real question.

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We're in it now and so this looking at what

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these guys trying to figure out with the Saudi Festival,

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it's like a microcosm for what's going on in our country. Yeah.

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And I've worked at places like Serious where the we're

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all sorts of radio stations that covered some things, and

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there might be a radio station that was not aligned

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with your personal views. Do you just not work there?

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Do you take the paycheck? I'm also looking at the

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individual artists. You know, if you're Sebastian Manuscalco, you just

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go and you do your thing. You're gab Iglesias, you

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just go and do your thing.

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If you're Dave.

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Chappelle, well, your thing kind of is political and you

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have been known to do a big chunk about LGBTQ

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plus are you doing it? Are you're not doing it?

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What's Dave's act there?

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You know?

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This is all This is just such a fascinating topic.

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It got a little covered by Kimmelgate, but I think

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this is going to be a comedy thing.

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Oh I would love to cover this festival. I mean,

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it'd be fascinating. I'll be honest with you. I was

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shocked that they I wasn't shocked, but I was. I

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was surprised that they fired Tim Dollan because if on

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the Saudis let them say whatever they want to say,

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you get the pr win. You know, if you the

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fact that you get to show Dave Chappelle or criticizement,

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you could, I think. But it shows you how different

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it is that they that they fired Tim Dillon, and

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it does what I think, It puts more pressure on

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the Dave Chappelle's and the Luisy Kays. We should say,

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you know, you you were talking earlier about if you

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got to feed your family. These are not comedians strongly

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to feed their family.

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Yeah, Kevin Hart doesn't need another paycheck. He's got enough work.

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Like they did not, Like almost all of them. I

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would say, it's clear they did not need to do

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this festival. That is also plays into the calculus. I

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would say, And you know now that Tim Dillon got fired,

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does that change their thought about it? Do they not?

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I mean if that happened in the US, if Columbia University,

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you know, hired somebody and they told a joke and

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then there was protests and they canceled it. And Dave

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Chappelle was showing up a Columbia university, is there any

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question that he would make the whole set about that,

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you know, the oppressiveness of of you know, the Columbia

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University cancel culture mob, etc. Right.

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I think it's that the general public, even the comedy fans,

250
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just haven't caught onto this. I noticed it during the summer.

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I've been mentioning on and off. I truly did have

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it as my opener on Monday, and then as I

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was working on Monday Show on Sunday, I saw your piece.

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There are a couple of things CBS wrote about it.

255
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There's been a few blogs about it, but I don't

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think this has registered yet.

257
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Yeah. No, Well maybe when it starts and when these

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guys perform will be interesting to see what happens. And

259
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considering the climate here, it's even more interesting.

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The name that it pops out that really jumps off

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the page for me. Well, well, we're Tim and Jessica

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because of their sexuality, and Pete Davidson for the nine

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to eleven connection. As we're recording today, what's on my

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mind it is the it was my father's birthday. He

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died thirty plus years ago from cancer. Sure, and I'm

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not sure, you know, I'm not sure I would be

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at the Lucky Strike Comedy Festival despite the paycheck. That

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might just be a thing where, you know what, Johnny

269
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Mack loves money. But you know, I'm not reading live

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reads for AR fifteen's and I don't know if i'd

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be at the cigarette festival just as a personal thing.

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So I find Pete Davidson might just be a much

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better person than me, but that juxtaposition to me just

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keeps jumping off the page.

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Yeah, the uh I hesitate to go. I mean there

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the I don't know what the reason is and what

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his politics about that are. You know, there's all sorts

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of things. I mean, the there's also the problem, there's

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a lot of I think a lot of these comedians

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are working for places already that they don't support, and

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they probably get immune to it. And I mean, you know,

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you could take there's people who certainly could take I've

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seen people who say, like, oh, if you're if you

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you should you know, you shouldn't appear on the Joe

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Rogan Experience. Joe Rogan has done the people who think

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that Joe Rogan has done irreparable damage to the country

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and the world. As we you know, are recording this

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the day after we learned that Kyle Linoll causes autism.

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And what is the responsibility of the artists if they

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get you know, if if Jordan Jensen gets offered to

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be on the Joe Rogan Experience, should she say no?

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These are these are live questions, right and the you

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know where you draw the line says something about who

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you are and what you're willing to do. But they're

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also not easy questions.

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No, and we saw over the weekend when we all

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had Disney rage. I pointed this out. John Stewart separately

298
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put it this on I'm not doing the John Stewart

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still what joke, you know, peril thinkings more people can

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sometimes come to the same line. But I was pointing out, Okay,

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we're mad at ABC, which means we're mad at Disney,

302
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So don't watch Monday Night Football. Cancel your Disney plus,

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no more Star Wars, nor no more Marvel, no more

304
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Red Zone. Does your morality on this end at Monday

305
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night football?

306
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Here's the thing the uh, you're exactly right. One of

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the issues we have that sort of all of these

308
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issues are related to, is is this one of kind

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of corporate consolidation. Trump is using all these levers that

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are wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the fact

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that like a handful of companies control everything. And so yeah,

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when you realize, yeah, boycotting Disney and ABC is gonna

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is much a much bigger ask than a lot of

314
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people probably think. That said, if there's another thing we've learned.

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It's that Boycott's work. I do think that Bob Iger

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changed course in part because of Boycott's And I also

317
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think there's a danger to this sort of neolis stick

318
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view that, oh, you know, it's all complicated, so we're

319
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not going to draw any line. You know, everything is

320
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you know, who ever, anyone who says they're they're not

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going to do something on moral principle is you know,

322
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a self righteous prig right'. I've really am kind of

323
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sick and tired of like five If you want to

324
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.240
not take moral stands on this, I understand it. But

325
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to judge people who do, who actually are putting themselves

326
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at risk and in the process perhaps making a difference,

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that that sort of pisses me off. And I think

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you're seeing a really you know, in some ways, you

329
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look at what happened. Kimmel got taken off the air,

330
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and people sign petitions, the people that Santa Fleuve to

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mock actors, celebrities, you know, people wrote articles, people ordinary

332
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people cancel Disney Plus and posted and on social media,

333
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you know, the most mocked thing in stand up comedy

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virtue signaling posting something right, like how many times have

335
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we heard about the post George Floyd posting the Black

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squares and oh, these hypocrits screw you that really you

337
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have to also say that had an impact and sometimes

338
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getting politically being politically involved makes a difference and the

339
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and I think that we this is the case where

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part of the goal of authoritarian regimes is to scare

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you and to make you feel powerless. And I think

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one of the things that we've got to do now

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is not fall for this idea that we have no power.

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We do have power.

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We we have our voice. We can speak out, we

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can stay, we can say what our line is. We

347
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can and it can vary. Maybe for some people it's

348
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you know, they'll go with Joe Rogan, but they're not

349
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going to go to you know there, or they're not

350
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going to go to Saudi Arabia, or they they're not

351
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gonna cancel Disney, but they're gonna sign a petition what

352
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they People have a voice in this country and they

353
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have to and they should use it and they shouldn't

354
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feel like they have no control. And because of what

355
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if they do, then we're in a really dark place.

356
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Well said, I'm trying to be a better host than

357
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actually building the break, So we'll come back. We'll talk

358
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.480
late night. Jason Zinnaman is with The New York Times.

359
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.079
Let's dive in on late night. Let me just throw

360
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.759
a grenade to open it up to your fellow Americans.

361
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.400
You weren't watching Stephen Colbert anyway. I know it was

362
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number one. I know you're so upset about it, but

363
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.519
you weren't watching at eleven thirty anyway? Is late night over?

364
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.240
Oh my god, is late night? It seems like it's

365
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.119
more relevant than ever Johnny.

366
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.079
This week, But you weren't watching Kimbell either.

367
00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:50.279
I think Trump has made late night the tip of

368
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the spear. It's it's more important. People are gonna walk.

369
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We're on Tuesday, eleven o'clock tonight is Jimmy Kimmel's monologue.

370
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You're gonna be watching it, Johnny Mack? Are you not?

371
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Are you not gonna be watching it? Is everybody gonna

372
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be watching it? Is it the most important piece of

373
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comedy of twenty twenty five? Probably?

374
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:13.400
Probably?

375
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.839
Probably? So let's not get it twisted like there's this

376
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other lie that gets spread. I hope we can talk

377
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.519
about the substance of what happened. There's a lot of

378
00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:25.519
bs from people who don't know what they're talking about,

379
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.799
and including from commentators who are like, no one's watching

380
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:33.480
the shows. Not true. Colbert had the high no one's

381
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.720
watching Everything has lower ratings than it did twenty years ago. Sitcoms,

382
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:44.640
your show everything, that's just a fact, right. The yes,

383
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.400
it's expensive and the economic models is not as good

384
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.960
as it used to be. But this is the highest

385
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.599
rated program in its time slot, Stephen Colbert, and it

386
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.079
got canceled. So it's not about that, right, there are

387
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.960
people watching. It's about something else, right, it's about the reason.

388
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.680
The reason they're being canceled is about something else. It's

389
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.440
about what they're saying. Right. So if you're using this

390
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.079
moment to say, oh, Late Night's irrelevant and it's no

391
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:16.000
one's watching it, one, you're lying. Two, you're missing the

392
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.400
fucking forest with the trees. It's the more relevant than

393
00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.960
it's been in thirty fucking years. And so get with

394
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.880
the program this. You can't choose where like the action is.

395
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.279
The action is not on stand up specials to Netflix

396
00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:32.160
right now. They have not released a single special since

397
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:38.000
this administration began that mattered remotely to ports politics in America,

398
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.680
what has mattered are these late night shows. So we

399
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.640
have to ask ourselves why is that.

400
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.440
We both have fixed smiles on our face and while

401
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:47.279
we're doing this. So I'm just gonna poke and do

402
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.240
what I would do if we were doing this over beers,

403
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.160
because this is what I would do it over beers. Sure, yes,

404
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.480
Tonight's Jimmy Kimmel Tuesday Night Jimmy Kimmel is super important.

405
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.400
But a week from now, next Thursday, hey join me

406
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:01.559
tonight at eleven thirty five, Jamie Lee Curtis and some

407
00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:03.519
band are coming by.

408
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:04.880
It's last week's.

409
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.200
News already, and we're back to does late night matter

410
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.200
in twenty twenty five? I get what you're saying about

411
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:13.000
the importance of it, and I was talking with Mark

412
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:16.559
Malkoff about it. I think there's still something to be

413
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:20.079
said for eleven thirty If you look at THEO Vaughn.

414
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.799
Clearly influential, clearly making a lot of money, clearly selling

415
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.519
a lot of tickets. But he's a podcaster and so

416
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:28.839
am I. It's not as impressive. It doesn't have the

417
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:32.759
statesmanship that eleven thirty five has, So I can argue

418
00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:37.240
it either way. It's an important position, but Also, I

419
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.599
don't think people were watching it tonight to last night.

420
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.599
I guess sure. I guess my brushing you is, if

421
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:43.960
it's so unimportant, why did Trump go after it?

422
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:47.680
Because they're making fun of him?

423
00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.799
Okay, a lot of people are making fun of him.

424
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.839
People are making fun of him on social media, people

425
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.319
are making fun of him on in comedy clubs. People,

426
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.319
But why did it go it? Like, you don't go

427
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.799
after something that does it matter? I think you have

428
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:05.440
to question your assumptions now, like it is not. Did

429
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:07.240
you watch the Adam Frielan show every week?

430
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:07.880
No?

431
00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:11.359
Okay, so that is a show that young people are

432
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.720
watching in a way and you can make the cases

433
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:15.680
relevant in a way that late night shows are not.

434
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:18.920
Right And certainly it went viral for this conversation with

435
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.880
Richie Torres about Israel. Right, there's a there is a

436
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.799
time and a place to say yes, shows on YouTube

437
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.519
that like are like that kind of show are relevant

438
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.119
to young people in a way that late night was

439
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.359
in the eighties. It's not as late night is not

440
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.799
as relevant to that. But that's not now. Like if

441
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.000
you're still saying late night is not relevant now, you're

442
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:46.920
missing the point. They it maybe never been more relevant

443
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.039
like we are now in an authoritarian moment. The Donald

444
00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:54.480
Trump has picked has gone after it was Colbert and Kimmel.

445
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.440
That's the best piece of evidence for its relevance there. Now,

446
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.400
if you want to argue about ratings, we can do it,

447
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.440
and we could talk about numbers, right and I think

448
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.400
there's actually a case to be made. It sounds counterintuitive

449
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.480
because so many people have been saying nobody watches late

450
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.799
night shows. But you could argue that more people are

451
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.200
watching some form of late night television than they have

452
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:26.559
in twenty five thirty years or twenty five may twenty years.

453
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:28.960
If you include like you, if you look at like

454
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:31.400
at the end, you know, close to the election. If

455
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.319
you look at like what Seth Myers did online plus

456
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:39.200
his ratings on the show, plus clips, and you compare

457
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.319
it to the Letterman or to the Conan Letterman late

458
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.559
nights period of that same thing, it's not that different.

459
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.599
That's a different question. That isn't making money. So it's

460
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:51.920
not making it's making less money. There's no question to that.

461
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.400
But so when you say it's not relevant people are

462
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.279
watching what you it's not true. What you really mean

463
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.319
is the econdog anog model is not there, and I

464
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.160
don't think you really want to be saying that. And

465
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.480
the reason I feel very personally about this is what's

466
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:13.119
happened to my industry newspapers. There's more people reading about

467
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:17.279
like cultural news than ever before, but the economic model

468
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.160
fell apart, and so all these new sapers fell apart.

469
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.599
It's not because no one's reading them. And to understand

470
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:25.759
the economics. There's a whole other question has to do

471
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:30.680
with advertising rates and how digitally digital advertising rates are

472
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.720
much worse than print advertising rates versus. And the same

473
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.680
thing is going with going on in late night. But

474
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.039
that's a question of money, it's not a question of relevance.

475
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:41.680
So if you want to talk about money, but I

476
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:46.240
just reject the idea that this is not relevant. I

477
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.079
think we have to now be like, okay, this is

478
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.759
now very relevant, and you got and I do think

479
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:54.519
people have to pick a side. Wait, like are you

480
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:56.640
going to stand up? Are you going to stand up

481
00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:01.160
against government censorship? Which is distinct cancel culture.

482
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.720
This is why I love having you on because you

483
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:06.519
help me sort my feelings. As I've used that phrase already,

484
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.480
you point out I'm thinking one of my best birthday presents. Ever,

485
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:12.359
when I was a teenagers, I got a VCR, and

486
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.119
the point of the VCR was so that I didn't

487
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:15.680
have to stay up till one thirty in the morning

488
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.920
watching David Letterman. I could then watch it the next

489
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.359
day on tape literal tape, which really is no different

490
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:27.000
than watching Jimmy Kimmel's monologue the next morning on social

491
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.759
media clip. It's just a different form. So I think

492
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.559
you make a good point there. Let's talk about the money,

493
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.359
Stephen Colbert number one, it was that something else or

494
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.119
it's we're losing forty million dollars. This makes no sense.

495
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:43.640
I mean, I think when it happened, there was this

496
00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:47.599
debate that was the question, right and the uh I

497
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.400
think now post this Kimmel thing, it seems like a

498
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:55.839
silly thing to ask. Obviously, it's not like something else

499
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.559
is going on here and in another But at the

500
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.680
time I suspect did it was a silly question, And

501
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:05.319
the reason I suspected it was this. For the history

502
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:09.319
of late night television, the metric for success was one thing.

503
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:14.880
Ratings right. If the show was doing well, ratings were good.

504
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.440
If the show is doing bad, the rains. This is

505
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.680
from Steve Allen, from jad par to Johnny Carson to

506
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.400
Jay Leno to That's how we did it? That all

507
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:31.599
changed coincidentally the moment that Stephen Colbert got canceled Suddenly,

508
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:36.160
CBS after eighty years or whatever it is of asting

509
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.880
us to judge success or failure by ratings, asked us

510
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:44.480
to judge by a completely new metric, budgets. It's losing

511
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.839
forty million dollars. We never been asked to do this before.

512
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:51.160
And let's be honest here, Johnny, we are ill equipped

513
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.200
to judge it because we don't have an answer. We

514
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.599
don't know how much money it costs ten years ago.

515
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:58.599
We don't know how much the Morning Show costs. We

516
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.759
don't know how much an hour drama is cost or losing.

517
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:05.160
So basically, they're asking us to judge by this entirely

518
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.839
new metric that we're completely ignorant about. We have no

519
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.880
context for. My conclusion is it is I call bullshit.

520
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:18.480
I call bullshit. There's something. It's politics. It's politics right now?

521
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.279
Do I know? Do I think that the Late Show

522
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.680
was making money? No? Do I think the Late Show

523
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:25.480
is a healthy economic model?

524
00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:25.799
No?

525
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.359
Do I think Late Night is gonna stay the same

526
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:32.039
in the next ten years. Absolutely not like it costs

527
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.359
too much money to put on a show in the

528
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.039
ed sol of the theater. And there are all these

529
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:42.359
other models, particularly podcasts, that are much more financially viable.

530
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:46.839
Now there are other examples of entertainment which are which

531
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:52.079
lose money aka Broadway. Everyone knows you're gonna lose money

532
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:55.319
if you invest in a Broadway show. That forever for

533
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.839
the astuery of Broadway. The majority of Broadway shows lose money,

534
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:02.519
But people still do it because of other reasons. Right,

535
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.160
they think it's good for the culture. They like to

536
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.480
go to parties. It's the prestige. They're name and lights

537
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.960
whatever it is, right, And there was a time when

538
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.279
Maate Night was the prestige you had, like, Oh, this

539
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.920
is the face of the network. It's doing, it's responding

540
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.240
to the news, it's being it's reless. That has declined.

541
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.880
The prestige of late night shows has declined from the

542
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:30.599
days of Conan and Letterman. The artistic ambition of these

543
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.799
shows has declined, so that I think, in some ways

544
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:39.279
is more important than the dollars and cents, because you're

545
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:42.119
not if the prestige is down you're not willing to

546
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:46.200
lose the money as much. And then if the presceige

547
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.960
is down and you're getting attacked politically for it, and

548
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.759
you're as spineless as Dave Lebanon will call you corporate

549
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:58.119
pinhead weasel, then maybe you cut your losses and replace

550
00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:59.000
it with a rerun.

551
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.319
Serious point. A second is I'm listening to you with

552
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.119
your passion, your cadence, and your vocal range. If they

553
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.079
ever make a John Stewart animated series, you can get

554
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:10.839
the voice work on that. You've got that down.

555
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.319
I apologize for yelling at you, John, I'm all mean

556
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:13.960
to be yelling you.

557
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:17.359
I'm just just an Actually, we both have big smiles

558
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:18.960
on our face. This is just this is what we

559
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:20.839
would be doing at the bar and order another round

560
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:21.920
now and go back into it.

561
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.039
And this is the way I show love. This is

562
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.960
the way Happy Russia, Shana Johanny back, this is the

563
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.200
way Jewish family show love.

564
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.440
And I'm doing my host job. I don't want to

565
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.240
just go yes, I agree, Jason, great point. Next topic, like,

566
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.839
I'm asking you questions and then shutting up because I

567
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.160
want to hear what you think specific to Colbert and

568
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.640
the money. Many people have made the point, do we

569
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:43.759
need the Ed Sullivan Theater? Do you need two undred staffers?

570
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.279
Can you do with one sixty? Could we do the

571
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:46.920
show four nights a week, three nights a week. Let's

572
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:49.839
double tape Wednesday and do two on Thursday. It's interesting

573
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:51.799
to me that they didn't stop off at any of

574
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:53.160
that and went straight to and you know what, we

575
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.680
can't afford this completely.

576
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.680
Let me tell you, in every other show they've asked

577
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.519
to make cuts. Some you've heard about, some you haven't.

578
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.400
So that's the first thing you do when you have

579
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.519
an issue. They didn't do that here, right, But let

580
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:13.000
me just also answer that question. I do think they

581
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.440
shouldn't be in the ed Solvent Theater. I mean, here's

582
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.880
a controversial hot take. David Letterman got worse moving from

583
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.119
thirty Rock to Ed Sullivan. It was too big a room.

584
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:23.920
Yep.

585
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:28.319
Colbert got worse moving from a small intimate space in

586
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:31.319
the Colbert Report to the ed Solvent Theater. I get

587
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:34.119
the appeal to artists of doing work in the place

588
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:36.319
where the Ed Solvent was, with a beatles porch played,

589
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:39.039
putting on a big show. There's something wonderful about a

590
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.039
big show around Broadway. Trust me, I understand that, but

591
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:46.440
it doesn't. It isn't necessarily the best form for most

592
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:51.279
kinds of comedy. Some kinds it is, But I don't

593
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.880
think it's going to be a great artistic loss to

594
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.799
lose the Ed Sullivan Theater. And I do think by

595
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.440
the way network you might find is a big part

596
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:04.279
of the calculus here is selling the Ed Solivent Theater.

597
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:07.519
CBS is gonna maybe they'll sell that to a you know,

598
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:12.119
the Schubert's, the Neederlanders or a Broadway landlord, and they

599
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:13.559
can get a lot of money from that. And maybe

600
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:19.119
that's the real economics of it. Again, it's so oblique.

601
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.599
We don't know what's what the calculus here is. But

602
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.359
I think that I think that, you know, it's worth

603
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:30.880
saying that, Like there was this moment that ironically, I

604
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.440
would say reached its peak with the Dawn of the

605
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.960
Late Show, the Letterman's Late Show, where they felt like, oh,

606
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.519
we're printing money. This is an incredibly cheap form, that's

607
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:43.680
what's great about it. So we can we can pay

608
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.640
we can buy expensive theater, we can pay huge salary

609
00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:49.400
for talent. We can say and they and you know

610
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:54.680
that time has passed what once the ads ad rates

611
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:57.279
went down. They can't do that. So now they're stuck

612
00:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.480
with this real estate, you know, in New York, it's

613
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.880
all real estate, you know, And they're gonna have to

614
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:08.400
downsize and adjust. And there's nobody who's better equipped to

615
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:14.279
downsize and adjust than comedians. Right. They don't need a

616
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.680
fancy theater. They don't need like that's the beauty of

617
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.720
podcasts like it. The reason that the comedians have dominated

618
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.079
that form is they don't need the bells and whistles.

619
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.839
They don't need an orchestra. It's not like forty second Street,

620
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.000
like you need a twenty piece orchestra and a long

621
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:37.079
line of dancers, high kicking dancers to really do justice

622
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:41.880
to one singular sensation and every little step we take.

623
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:45.720
You don't need that to do a great David Letterman monologue.

624
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:49.400
I wonder if there was a Taylor Thomason butterfly effect.

625
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.480
Now let me scream from the mountaintops. I'm not blaming

626
00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:55.039
Taylor Thomlinson. I'm not blaming Taylor Thomlinson. But Taylor Thomason's

627
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:58.119
twelve thirty show had been picked up and then, as

628
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.359
we're told, she changed her mind. What was the plan there?

629
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:04.440
Were you going to have a twelve thirty show but

630
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.000
no eleven thirty show? That's kind of weird. Were you

631
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:11.880
going to slide tailor up to eleven thirty that's differently weird.

632
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:14.840
That doesn't add up to me. Although having been in

633
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:19.079
corporate boardrooms with programming meetings, I could see a scenario

634
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.480
where once the band aid was pulled off twelve thirty,

635
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.800
I could see some Weisenheimer like me going do we

636
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.760
even need eleven thirty? And that that starting thing. I

637
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.039
don't know if that's what happened.

638
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.440
I think it's a very good theory I heard, I

639
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.079
saw it. Maybe it was usaw make a footing this

640
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.440
theory first, But I'm again, we don't know. There's some

641
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:41.320
the reality is most And you know, I got very

642
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:44.800
exercised earlier because I have strong opinions on what I

643
00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:48.559
think happened, and I think every piece of information that

644
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:54.800
comes out I think supports my initial instinct, which is

645
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.800
this is fundamentally taking a step back political But it's

646
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.039
a multi callsal thing. And yeah, Taylor Thomlinson was part

647
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:07.320
of it, but that is as it's clearly a weird

648
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.079
It doesn't make It doesn't add up that they would

649
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:11.760
make her an offer at the same time they'd be

650
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:13.239
getting out of the late night business.

651
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.079
Yeah, that doesn't add up at all. Let's dive in

652
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.599
on ABC because the greater issue, other than the specifical

653
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:22.320
Jimmy Kimmel is, as you've pointed out, the important issue.

654
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.760
The FCC chair goes on a podcast, has some things,

655
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:27.000
then two hours later, Jimmy Kimmel's pulled off the air.

656
00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:31.440
I mean that escalated quickly, you know, And that's not

657
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:33.840
a conversation where I was going. Now you know, we're

658
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:37.679
also losing money on Jimmy Kimmel. This was clearly the

659
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:42.079
affiliates overreacting to what Jimmy Kimmel actually said. He was

660
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.440
the line they apparently have a problem with the front

661
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.880
half about their trying to distance themselves. Probably could have

662
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.679
been phrased better. If I've said, if you'd speak into

663
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:53.639
a microphone long enough, you will say things you wish

664
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:55.480
he had phrased better. I'm going to listen back to

665
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:57.440
the edit of this show and go like, oh, I

666
00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.480
misspoke there. I wish i'd clean that up. That's going

667
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.679
to happen, So maybe Jimmy could have made his point

668
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:06.000
more clearly on the first half, but in essence that's

669
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:09.519
a Trump joke. And then the FCC chair goes, I

670
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.320
don't know, you know, we can handle this the easy

671
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:13.119
way of the hard way, which is like your dad

672
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.320
in a bad mood. And then the affiliates bail and

673
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.079
then the strangest thing to me, having worked in the

674
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:23.679
entertainment industry, even though radio is not Hollywood, but radio,

675
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.480
it's the entertainment industry, you back your talent. You always

676
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.519
back your talent. Now we might pull you in the

677
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:32.119
back room and be like, hey, Jason, you got to

678
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:34.920
cut it out with the publicly. Hey, Jason's been a

679
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.719
great contributor to the Daily Comedy News podcast. He's a

680
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.400
recurring guest. We love the guy. We're going to have

681
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.639
him back, and you know we've got your back. You

682
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:45.000
always do that publicly to kick the face of your

683
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:49.119
network out the door. Within two hours, the FCC chair

684
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:51.760
could say whatever he wants. That's a reaction to the

685
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:54.760
government going you guys better cut it out, or you know,

686
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:56.880
bad things could happen.

687
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.880
I think what you just said everyone should be willing

688
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.559
to agree with that. You've got to back. You're like

689
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:08.599
the job, the core job. And I think, as someone

690
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:11.920
who writes for a newspaper, I believe that incredibly strongly,

691
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:14.760
Like I will, just like you've got to back your

692
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.800
writers even when they're wrong, right, even when they're wrong.

693
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:20.320
That doesn't mean you don't it don't run corrections, we

694
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.320
don't come up with different points of view, We don't

695
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:28.320
admit we're wrong. But the you need to support artists

696
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.639
and writers so they are willing to take risks. And

697
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:35.559
that's true in Late Night's Hue in your business to

698
00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:38.800
my business, is true in for right wing left wing

699
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:42.519
it's true for that is how a large measure of

700
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.880
how these people should be judged. Now, one thing I

701
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.679
want to ask you, because I'm a little bit I've

702
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.760
been sort of confused or I'm not sure how what

703
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:57.760
I think about this. What Jimmy Kimmel actually said, Okay,

704
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:02.079
what even some people who defend him, the Andrew Schultz,

705
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:04.880
who I think has had like a tried to kind

706
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.719
of do a both side on this, but all fundamentally

707
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:11.199
defended his right to free speech right. But he also said,

708
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.360
and I think some other people have said that when

709
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:18.039
he said the killer of Charlie Kirk that the Trumps

710
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:20.480
is trying to make it so the killer of Charli

711
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:26.840
Hirk is anything but Maga, Right, Yes, did you think

712
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:31.840
that what he was saying was the killer of Charlie

713
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.239
Kirk is Maga.

714
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.320
As I listened to the edit here, I think this

715
00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:38.840
would be a good time to replay what Jimmy Kimmel said,

716
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.000
and then I'll go back and pick up with Jason's question.

717
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.400
We hit some new lows over the weekend with the

718
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:48.320
Maga gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered

719
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.760
Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and

720
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.320
everything they can to score political points from. And in

721
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:57.559
between the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the

722
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:00.960
White House flew the flags at half staff, which some criticism,

723
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:04.320
but on a human level, you can see how hard

724
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:05.679
the President is taking this.

725
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.280
I condun't have that a lot of your friend. Charlie

726
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:11.519
Kirk asked sir personally. How are you holding up over

727
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:13.679
the last day and a half, Sir, I think very good.

728
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:15.639
And by the way, right there, you see all the

729
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.000
trucks they've just started construction of the new ball room

730
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:19.800
for the White House.

731
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:25.039
Did you think that what he was saying was the

732
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:28.400
killer of Charlie Kirk is MAGA. I do not.

733
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:34.719
I believe Jimmy Kimmel was saying that the politicians or

734
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:38.079
the conservative speakers were trying to make it clear that

735
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.639
the shooter was not one of them. I think Jimmy

736
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:42.599
was saying, that is what they are saying. I don't

737
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.679
think Jimmy was saying that the shooter was Mega. I

738
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.639
think he was saying that the politicians are trying to

739
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:50.199
make it clear to everybody else who might be misconstrued

740
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:54.199
that the shooter is not Maga. And then the funny

741
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.119
part was the president's reaction to how do you feel

742
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.719
about the death of friend Charlie Kirk? Check out this

743
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.280
beautiful ballroom. I'm building that that's the joke. But I

744
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:08.199
don't think Jimmy was implying something. Could he have phrased

745
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:11.280
it better? I think that's clear, But I don't think

746
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:12.519
there was any malice there at all.

747
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.599
Well see that. I think that is looking forward to

748
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.159
tonight where to see what he says, which everyone's going

749
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:21.559
to be watching. I think that's going to be the

750
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:24.119
thing to watch for because I agree with you, but

751
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:28.519
clearly other people disagree clearly. I I you know, I

752
00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:30.639
don't think I can say it's all bad fate. I

753
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:33.920
think some people really did take him to say that,

754
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.679
and I think it was as you say it was.

755
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:41.400
It was clumsily put and it opened up this window

756
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:43.960
for him to be misinterpreted. A lot of it is

757
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.760
bad fait, clearly, But I think what he's going to

758
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.639
do is he's going to clarify that. I think he's good.

759
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.400
I think he's going to say I did not mean

760
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:56.000
to play because I think that is first of all,

761
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:58.679
it doesn't seem to be. It's not true, and speculating

762
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:01.360
on that is is not a good thing to do,

763
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.880
in my opinion and by all evidence, his first reaction

764
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.559
to the assassination was to express sympathy and to say,

765
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:13.880
can we just be all share a remorse, just feel

766
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:17.480
just you know, not politicize this, but call this a tragedy.

767
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:20.039
So the idea that he was doing that seems like

768
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:21.960
that's not what he was trying to do. But that

769
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.960
doesn't mean that it didn't come off sounding like that

770
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.199
to some people. And one of the things that's been

771
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.800
frustrating about what's happened to he got taken off the air.

772
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.400
Is a lot of people. There's a certain numb of

773
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.599
people who saw what he said, but most people didn't.

774
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:38.679
And there's a lot of people who are saying, oh,

775
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:41.079
I disagree with what he said, but I support his

776
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.920
right to say it, which is better than saying nothing

777
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.599
or not saying you support is ready to say it.

778
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.840
But I think it's also I think I think unfair

779
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.119
to him because I think it's more accurate to say

780
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:57.360
he didn't put this well and he was confusing in

781
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.920
his delivery. But his intent, which is clear to me,

782
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:02.360
was not to say that. It was just it was

783
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.960
that he was commenting on the politicization of the killen.

784
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:09.320
Now around the same timetable on the Fox News channel,

785
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.679
Brian Killmead on live television made a comment about I'm

786
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:18.400
paraphrasing here, but the gist of it was involuntarily lethal

787
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:21.800
injections to the homeless. Excuse me what now. He apologized

788
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:24.880
for it pretty quickly, but he wasn't removed from air.

789
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.320
There's no outrage about that. But you know, we should

790
00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:30.679
round up the homeless and inject them and kill them.

791
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.000
Excuse me what? To me, that's far worse than even

792
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.880
if we think Kimmel was saying what some people think

793
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:38.480
he was saying, and I don't. I don't think the

794
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:41.320
let's round up people and shoot them with lethal injections

795
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:42.039
is far worse.

796
00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:48.000
I mean, obviously I agree, but even the fact that

797
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.199
we're discussing it is sort of a concession, like this

798
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:56.440
is not fundamentally my interpretation is this is not about

799
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.360
I don't think Among the good faith readings of that

800
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:06.239
comment are includes Brendan Carr from the SEC like he

801
00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:11.559
was looking for something to take out late night talks

802
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:16.039
to us because Trump wanted it, which he said explicitly.

803
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:21.119
This is Sherlock's Holmes mystery. This is couldn't be more obvious.

804
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:22.840
Me kibble your next.

805
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.719
It's like, it's so maddening that we have to sit around.

806
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:30.079
I mean, it's interesting to exp from like a craft

807
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:32.159
point of view, to be like, well, did he say

808
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:34.760
something that was actually he said is quickly. But the

809
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.960
bigger picture we should not lose sight of is he

810
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:42.719
was he got shut down because of the governments wanted

811
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:47.960
to shut up its critics. This is government censorship and

812
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.119
it's and it's clear as day, and if it could

813
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:55.920
happen to him, it could happen to you, and it's

814
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:58.559
He's not the first either, He's I mean he's not

815
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:02.519
or the most important. Look at the universities, look at

816
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.000
the law firms, look at companies. This is now what

817
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:10.360
life is in this country and we need to figure out.

818
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:15.440
You know. Obviously, I think it's like, I think he's

819
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.079
going to clarify it tonight, But I think that the

820
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:23.599
problem with the Disney response is Disney started, Disney starts

821
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:27.119
to treat this attack as a good faith concern over

822
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.960
you know what he said, They've already kind of lost

823
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.280
the plot.

824
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:35.519
I do want to say, as somebody who's been a

825
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.960
manager at broadcast companies, you do back your talent. There

826
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:41.119
is a line in all situations. There are exceptions. So

827
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.199
what might be an example of where you might not

828
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.760
back your talent? As a total hypothetical, And I always

829
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.079
use the example of the Martians for a reason because

830
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.760
I'm not trying to do hate speech, but it's the

831
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.719
way I illustrate hate speech. If on the Saturday Night

832
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:57.920
Live premiere, one of the main casts loses their mind

833
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.119
and goes into a taia tribe about the Martians, those

834
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:05.440
green skin antenor freaks are horrible and they're eating the cats.

835
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:09.159
That might be a situation where NBC and Lord Michaels

836
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:12.239
might say, you know what, that performer is no longer

837
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.519
part of the SNL cast. That might not be a

838
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.199
situation where you're going to go in and back the talent.

839
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.679
It might be a situation where you do back the

840
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.719
talent and go obviously, so and so is having personal

841
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:24.639
issues and lost their mind on live TV, and we

842
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.400
apologize to the moortion community. That could be a scenario.

843
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.400
But that also could be a scenario for a dismissal

844
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.320
where we're not going to back hate speech, which is

845
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:32.719
not at all what we're talking about in any of

846
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:33.400
these cases.

847
00:45:33.639 --> 00:45:37.719
I agree, but let me say something that let me

848
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:42.000
give you, let me compliment a network an exec. Okay,

849
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:46.159
I didn't like a lot of the Dave Chappelle specials

850
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:52.320
about the obsessive focus on trans stuff. I said so

851
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:59.519
in print right more than once. But I also think

852
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:04.239
that then Ted Serandos standing but not pulling the special,

853
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.239
not you know, standing by him was the right move

854
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.320
that even I think, and I think she deserves he

855
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:17.320
deserves credit for that. The in the same way. You know, also,

856
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:19.159
he could be like you can also say I disagree

857
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.320
with him, which which is what happened, by the way,

858
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:25.119
with HBO. Once Eddie Murphy got a protested for his

859
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:29.360
for his Delirious where he made incredibly offensive remarks that

860
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:33.239
age HBO president. They eventually apologize it, and so did

861
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:35.880
the corporate did, but they didn't take it off the service.

862
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.800
And I'm not saying there's never a time to take

863
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:42.119
someone off of service, or to take someone off the network,

864
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:44.079
or there's no line you can't cross to get you fired.

865
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:47.000
Of course they're you know that, I think, and their

866
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:51.239
boycotts are away for people or another form of speech.

867
00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:56.360
But as somebody who cares about artistic freedom, I would

868
00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:01.519
like the suits or my editors are the people who

869
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.199
run your podcast video to err on the side of

870
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:08.119
letting people say what they want to say, even if

871
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:10.960
they disagree with it, even if it's even a you know,

872
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.960
obviously there's a line that goes too far, but I

873
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.400
think they The Kimmel thing didn't even come remotely close.

874
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:23.719
The Chaffellevee came closer, and I still think the right

875
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:30.840
response is to fight it with boycott's speech criticism. That's

876
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:37.360
the way a healthy democracy works. And so the people

877
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:41.400
who don't like Jimmy Kivel had many many forums to

878
00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:45.280
express their dislike of him. They have Magnum before. They

879
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.679
can also not watch them, but they also could put

880
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:49.320
can boycott them where they can create. And I'm sure

881
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.119
they're goynew you know, they have many, many ways to

882
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:55.840
do it. That's not what happened here. That's the difference.

883
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:58.679
You know. I'm excited about the reverse boycott because I

884
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:01.719
do have shows to make it a cast of beaeff.

885
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:03.519
And to that point, let me get in one more

886
00:48:03.559 --> 00:48:09.199
break with Jason Zenmann from The New York Times. Jason,

887
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:11.880
we're losing Mark Marin at the wrong time. He just peaked,

888
00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:14.360
I think with his last comedy special as the Best.

889
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:18.559
I feel like he's the right guy. He was, you know,

890
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:21.079
not being shy about his opinions about some of his

891
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:24.360
fellow podcasters. And I think he's bothered that his fellow

892
00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:27.760
podcasters became podcasters because of the success of the medium

893
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.280
he helped build. And here we are as we head

894
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:33.039
into October, and Mark's gonna walk away from us. Don't

895
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.199
leave Mark. How do we convince Mark Maron to stay?

896
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.280
We need Mark Mann.

897
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.280
I wouldn't be shocked if he does come back in

898
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.400
some form, don't you think. I don't think the guy

899
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.719
can stay away. He's like, yeah, he's on Instagram live,

900
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.039
he's kind, you know, he likes being in the mix,

901
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:48.360
and he's at the at the height of this. I mean,

902
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:54.360
his podcast run was an all timer for in support

903
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:57.960
of this new special. I think he you know, I

904
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:02.039
can't think of a more successful podcasts, you know, just

905
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.559
let get a great example of like criticizing all these

906
00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:12.000
people and starting conversations, getting pushed back, having back and forth,

907
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.800
going on their shows to some of them, you know,

908
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.360
going to talk about Howie Mendell bad friends. These It

909
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:23.480
was interesting to see like a genuine conversation about and

910
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:25.320
to see what their reaction to it was. So I

911
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:27.239
don't know, we'll see, we'll see. I agree. I think

912
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.119
it's an odd time for him to leave, because I

913
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:35.039
do think there's like a huge lane for like that

914
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:40.800
kind of outspoken liberal political comedy voice, and it's going

915
00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:43.639
to be filled. It's going to be filled, we're bother

916
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:44.960
by Marring or somebody else.

917
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:47.559
I could see the him being burnt out on prepping

918
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:49.719
for guests and doing that. But maybe do something like

919
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.360
Bird doesn't just pop on Monday morning and do twelve

920
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:54.960
minutes about whatever's on your mind and doesn't have to

921
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.719
be fancily produced. Just open up the mic, rip and go.

922
00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.519
But yeah, weird. Time to walk off. Couple of things

923
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:02.280
I want to hit. I know you're on the John

924
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:07.800
Marco SIASI train. That special was fantastic. Yeah, he's been

925
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.719
one of my favorites. I feel like this is a

926
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.639
really jerky thing to say, but I'm just being honest here.

927
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:16.440
So on my show. I saw him for the first

928
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:18.880
time at the Montreal Comedy Festival New Faces, and I

929
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:21.760
have been saying like, no, this is the guy. He's amazing,

930
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.280
and I feel like he's making me look good. And

931
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.239
that's such a jackass thing to say.

932
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:31.280
Well, I've been there, I've been there, I know, I

933
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:33.599
know the feeling of it, and yeah, you look good.

934
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:38.480
I think it's a it's a great special. It's doing

935
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:42.000
really well. I see it's like past half million views,

936
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:44.920
and I think he's a good example of somebody that

937
00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:48.239
does all the nonsense that you need to do in

938
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:51.840
twenty twenty five, the social media stuff, the crowd work,

939
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:56.760
politics and what you see in this special is he

940
00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:03.119
also works hard at the craft of comedy, at refining jokes.

941
00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:06.519
It's a it's a punchline, dense set. It's I mean,

942
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:10.079
it's actually what's really exciting about it is I think

943
00:51:10.119 --> 00:51:12.840
it's a step up from his previous work. But I

944
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.840
don't think it's actually I think he's got another gear

945
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:21.039
because he he is, you know, a very thoughtful guy

946
00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:26.320
that has things to say, and this special is not

947
00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:30.159
you know, this special is more about jokes. I would argue,

948
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:32.519
and not to say that there's not things to say

949
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:35.119
in it. And he talks about his dysfunctional family and

950
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:39.119
he talks about but he I think he actually has

951
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:41.519
a lot of range as a comic, which is what

952
00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:44.239
I think maybe you were seeing, is that he can

953
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:49.239
do all these different things. He's he's act out's physical puns,

954
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:53.079
you know, the you know, crowd work. That he has

955
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.119
all this rate. How he can be like a political comic.

956
00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:59.199
He could just be a straight up potical comic. The

957
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:03.039
he could be club he can be all tis. He's

958
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.960
obviously theater obsessed, so he blurs a lot of lines.

959
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:11.039
And I think what's cool about this special is it's

960
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.519
him showing off his sort of Club Comic Chops.

961
00:52:16.039 --> 00:52:18.280
I'm just gonna move on because we're tight on time.

962
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:20.519
I did two more things I want to hit coming

963
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:22.800
off the Emmys. Can you help me talk Nate pergetsie

964
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:24.280
off the ledge that he's going to stop being a

965
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:25.800
stand up and he's going to build a theme park.

966
00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:28.000
Because I've said this, I'm going to ten years from

967
00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:29.480
now be like, remember when nateer gets he thought he

968
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:31.320
was going to build a theme park. Nate, you got it.

969
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:33.480
You're at the peak, man. Just play the theaters. It's

970
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:37.599
all good. I think we're now thirty seconds past peak. Nate.

971
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.559
They pulled out the cherry host of the Emmys. I

972
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.199
don't think it went well, and you're a great stand up.

973
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:47.159
Just do that, dude, I mean it's I do wonder

974
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:50.039
what he thinks. Let me just for the sake of

975
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:56.440
fun podcast clashing disagreement, let me play Devil's Advocate. Ratings

976
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:00.119
were up eight percent, I think, even though all all

977
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:04.039
the critics seemed to dislike it, even though he seemed

978
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.960
uncomfortable and he seemed we can debate for another time.

979
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:10.920
The central bit of the Emmys, which I actually think

980
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:13.320
I'm a little bit of an anomaly on. But I

981
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:16.440
do agree he was the wrong person to deliver that bit,

982
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:20.679
but it reached. It was judged by the success we

983
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.920
mentioned earlier, the sixth secta metric that we've always judged

984
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.000
by ratings. It worked, and I'm sure the Emmys are

985
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.559
gonna want him back next year. Now, he also was

986
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:34.280
this guy who had gotten great reviews and until this

987
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:36.280
Emmys were suddenly a lot of people who didn't know

988
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:40.280
who he was had maybe a bad feeling about him.

989
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:42.480
So I don't I'm not sure he saw that as

990
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:48.760
a success, but so yeah, I agree. Will he stick

991
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.599
to doing theme parks and movies? We'll see. Maybe after

992
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:55.199
a movie comes out and it doesn't do well, he

993
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:56.599
might have a change of heart.

994
00:53:57.079 --> 00:53:59.920
Last one, I've started a segment called comedy stock market.

995
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:02.000
I won't have you do any sales because you're a

996
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:04.719
positive kind of guy. But in the comedy stock market,

997
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:08.000
who should we be buying a proverbial stock in comedy?

998
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:10.760
Oh my god, I don't know. I mean, I think

999
00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:13.920
Siasi is a good is definitely a guy to buy stock,

1000
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:17.679
and he's on the he's on the ascent, and there's

1001
00:54:17.719 --> 00:54:20.480
too many people. But right, but this week, since the

1002
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:24.000
special came out. He's somebody who is on the rise.

1003
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:26.320
I think, you know, I'll just shout out another one

1004
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:30.360
who I liked, Dusty Sleigh. Oh, yes, absolutely, who's a

1005
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:33.880
great comic and is in the the Nate universe. But

1006
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:36.719
somebody who who's special I think deserves more attention.

1007
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:38.920
All right, Jason Zenniman. You can read him in the

1008
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:41.400
New York Times, especially if you want to prechape a Saturday.

1009
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:45.519
You can read a couple of paraphts. And thank you

1010
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:49.320
for that. I'm gonna say this on air. This is

1011
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.320
the best hour of this podcast ever. This was just

1012
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:56.280
a wonderful conversation. It was thoughtful, it was respectful, We

1013
00:54:56.360 --> 00:54:58.400
let each other speak, We had smiles on our faces.

1014
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.960
There was nothing antagonistic. Don't at end of the text.

1015
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:03.960
This was a good, healthy discussion. Always great to have

1016
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:05.119
you on. I appreciate it, man.

1017
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:07.599
I am flattered to hear you say that, because, as

1018
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.360
you know, I am a fan of this podcast, a

1019
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.119
regular listener. So I'm very flattered and I appreciate do

1020
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:17.320
you giving me a fortune to get some irrational anger

1021
00:55:17.360 --> 00:55:17.960
off my chest?

1022
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:21.119
Man wasn't that great? And I forgot to record a

1023
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:23.360
proper clothes. I'm sitting out on the back deck trying

1024
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:24.800
to get some fresh air for the first time in

1025
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:27.199
a week, and cleaning up the edit, and I'm like, oh,

1026
00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:29.679
I can't just knock out like that, So this is

1027
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:31.880
the proper close. See you later.