The Letterman Podcast's Mike Chisholm (Part 2)

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Callaroga Shark Media. I'm Johnny Mack
with your daily comedy news. Today is

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part two of my interview with Mike
Chisholm. He hosts The Letterman Podcast,

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which celebrates the incredible body of work
done by broadcast legend David Letterman and company.

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On The Letterman Podcast, Mike highlights
folks who work with Dave or were

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part of the show's productions. Today
is a little more nerdier than yesterday.

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We start to geek out about some
specific subjects, including Chris Elliott, who

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I adore, But we'll pick up
the conversation here with me talking about Steve

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Allen. I think another influence that
maybe for younger people goes unrecognized is Steve

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Allen. I think there's a tendency
to go work backwards and go Letterman,

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Carson, Jack Parr, and you
have a version of the Tonight's Show in

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your head that starts with Parr and
goes through Johnny and Jay. But the

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Steve Allen Tonight's Show, if you
watch clips of that, you'd swear you're

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watching nineteen sixty two Late Night with
David Letterman. I think he even did

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a version of the Alka Seltzer suit
unless I'm totally hallucinating. Yeah, No,

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Dave in the Serial Bowl, Dave
in the Alka Seltzer suit and some

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of these things. But Dave has
never shied away from the idea of saying

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that he was influenced by some of
the antics of Steve Allen. The man

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on the street again, the razor
sharp wit of talking to people in the

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audience and the coming up with these
responses, that kind of thing. There's

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no doubt that there's a Steve Allen
influence there. This is where we bring

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up Don Giller and his might of
what he has done with this insane collection

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that he has, what he has
done. If you go onto Don Giller's

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channel on YouTube, he's got a
seven part in. Every single part is

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like an hour and a half.
It's called the Talk I think it's called

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the Talk Show Guest Series, and
it's in chronological order every single late night

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host or talk show host and every
appearance that they made on any of David

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Letterman shows. So Parr is there, Steve Allen, is there, Dick

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Cavott, who've had on our show, he was there, and it goes

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through every single time he interviewed or
had these people on the show. And

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the cool thing about it because he
does it in chronological order of each guest

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or each host, I should say
it's both their yes and a host in

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this case anyway, because he does
it in that order, you see the

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evolution of Dave, and you see
the evolution of Dave's interviewing skills and his

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courage is his self esteem. Early
on, when he's interviewing some of these

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people, he is really you can
tell he's in awe of some of these

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folks. And then as his experience
and skill level increased over the years,

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you just see how formid old David
Letterman has become. And it's a fascinating

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That's comfort food for me, Johnny. Honestly, if I'm having a bad

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day of some sort and i need
to vege on, I need to take

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some time and just recharge, I'll
go and I'll watch those Those are absolutely

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astounding in their insight, but of
course their entertainment value as well. Highly

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recommend them. But yes, Steve
Allen huge influence, as was Tom Snyder,

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as Johnny Carson you could throw,
as was Dick Cavot for that matter.

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You can see influence in Dave from
a lot of these folks. Jack

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Parr of course as well. I
shouldn't, but you see it today too,

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younger people influencing Dave as well in
my next guest. And I just

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love this evolution that he has had. If you look at it that way,

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it makes it a lot easier.
That change is a lot easier to

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stomach if you look at it as
an evolution. And where Dave is at

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right now, as far as I'm
concerned, he's top of his game.

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I saw him a couple of weeks
ago in La too. I saw two

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nights during his three night run in
LA I saw him interview Nate Bergazi and

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Tim Robinson from I Think You Should
Leave on Netflix, and watching him talk

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to these amazing comedians that are hot
as all ghetto right now and not just

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hang with them, but they're hanging
off his every word. It's quite astounding

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to see that, to see him
become our Johnny Carson right now. But

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the thing is, Johnny Carson left, Dave didn't, and I'm so grateful

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for that. Did you watch Malini's
show the first couple nights, especially the

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first twenty month, and it's of
Malini's show I was like, twelve thirty

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days back, this is chaotic,
this is crazy. I love it.

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That's exactly what I thought it was
too. I was down in La while

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that was happening, and I was
trying my very best to try and figure

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out a way to get to the
episode where Dave was on it. And

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I think I'm glad that Dave wasn't
on the first episode because I think that

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there was You're right, there was
some chaos there, but there was also

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some of that chaos that was like, Okay, is this working? Is

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it not working? But by day
three or four you're like, okay,

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this is crazy. And it was
very much like Late Night. But then

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you throw in the idea of having
a group of people out there unscripted.

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No real it doesn't feel like that. A segment producer came out and said,

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Okay, we're gonna go from here
to hear other than the special guest

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who was the expert topic on,
Let's make sure we give them some time.

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But other than that, it seemed
to be pretty free form. Yeah,

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it was. I loved it.
I thought it was fantastic. I

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know that there's a lot of people
who are scratching their heads because they're used

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to seeing no offense to Falon's Tonight
Show. But Falens Tonight Show is pretty

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buttoned up, is pretty A to
B two C A to B two C

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formulaic, and mullaney show was anything
but that. Putting Richard Kind as the

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as the sidekick, Holy, that
was funny. Richard Kind is always He's

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always just made me laugh. That
guy is just a He's like a cartoon

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character come to life. What a
genius move throwing Richard Kind on that in

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those suits on as that and I
thought it was very funny. And the

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cool thing about it is the response
to it. At the beginning, I'm

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down in La as it's happening,
and I'm watching, I'm going online and

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reading these responses while I'm down there, like right before. I think one

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morning I actually talked about when we
had breakfast down there and it was just

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watching the responses and people were like, what the hell is this show?

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And they didn't like it at all, a lot of people, a lot

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of people were like really against it. But since then, you've seen,

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like Mulaney just had an interview again
the other day talking about are you gonna

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be doing more of these? Are
you gonna do more talk shows because there's

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this audience that's clearly there, that
clearly enjoyed the strangeness of it, and

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I believe one hundred percent you're exactly
right. It can be directly compared in

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many respects to Late Night with David
Letterman. I've seen a lot of people

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with the take, and I agree
with it. The move from Malaney is

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to do that four six times a
year, maybe take it on the road

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like Conan. If he were to
start doing that on Netflix at ten pm

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Eastern every night, I think I'd
wind up with the same place I wind

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up with eleven thirty day of like
you know what, I'm gonna watch something

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else to night. I don't really
need to see m'laney, but I love

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the potential there. I want to
spend a couple of minutes just nerding out

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about Chris Elliott and I Another thing, you realize the influence on Late Night

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on me. I won't get into
it here. My audience knows. I

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have a recurring joke about Joe Coy
and Taylor Swift that I have beaten to

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death to the point where it went
from funny to not funny at all,

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and it's now back to funny because
you know I'm going to do it,

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and that I'm thinking of the Chris
Elliott bits of Guy under the seats.

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We all know where this is going
to go, and we're all laughing and

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we're all in on the jokes.
But let's do it the Fugitive Guy over

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and over. It's the same setup, it's the same payoff, but I

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couldn't get enough of it. Let's
just start about Chris Elliott. Chris Elliott

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is as far as I'm concerned,
he's an international treasure. He's just and

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I say that because Shit's Creek up
here in Canada. Of course, we're

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very proud of Schitz Creek being a
Canadian production. And I was so happy

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to see him in Shit's Creek.
I was so happy to see Chris Elliot

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back. Chris Elliott is just He
is incredible and one of the most humble

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people that you'll ever ever talk to. He and I have had conversations.

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He's reluctant to come on the Letterman
podcast. Doesn't want to talk about some

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of the stuff he did back then
because out of just Again, it's so

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interesting how these people can be so
self deprecating and not understand the influence that

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they make. But again, a
few weeks ago, watching David Letterman and

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Tim Robinson on stage, Tim Robbins
Dave asked him, do you have any

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questions for me? And one of
his first questions to Dave was can we

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talk about Chris Elliott for a second. And one of the things Dave said

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on stage was, at one time
was probably the funniest human walking the planet,

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I think was what he said.
And it's true Chris was Oh was

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he good? One of the things
that I love about Chris Elliott. And

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it seems to be this way behind
the scenes as well, from everybody that

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I've talked to. And I don't
think I'm telling tales out of school when

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we talk about Larry Sanders and how
people say nobody was afraid of Larry.

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If there was one guy on the
staff that was directly interacting with Dave and

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performing with Dave that wasn't afraid of
Dave, it was Chris. At least

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I don't know if he was or
not, but at least he came across

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like he wasn't he was, He
wasn't afraid. To give it back to

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Dave, and really play with him. And if they're hockey players, I'm

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not afraid to hit each other,
They're not afraid to throw an elbow here

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and there. It was edgy and
dangerous and unpredictable. It had that unpredictable

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nature to it, even in some
of these canned things that were gonna happen

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that were quote unquote predictable. They
weren't like the guy under the seats,

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But what's he gonna do next?
Is there something that's gonna be different or

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is it going to be just the
same. And you didn't know that.

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That was the unpredictable part of it. And you think about the family,

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the draft. I the name escapes
me right now. I can't believe the

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name escapes me. But Chris acting
with this acting troupe and the little sketches

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and skits that they would put on
night Light. Oh my god, do

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you remember night Light? Yes?
Oh, when Chris would have his own

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show, that night Light with Chris
show, the middle of Dave Show,

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his own show. Yeah, he
knew late night show. This is night

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Light with Chris Elliott right in the
middle of Late Night with David Letterman,

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And it seems like a new show. Is beginning and Chris completely lampooning day,

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doing almost a caricature of the types
of jokes he would do, and

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some of the things, Oh boy, was that good. Chris Elliott is

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a genius. He is amazing and
I don't even know if he knows how

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much of an impact he has made
on people. Yeah, he is absolutely

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incredible. There's a great clip on
YouTube. I'll encourage everyone to seek out.

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They don't even explain it, which
is why it's great. It's Chris

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Elliott is in Paul Shaffer's place doing
a Paul Schaeffer impression, exaggerated, jumping

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up and down, saying things Paul
would say, not even like trying to

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be funny. He's just doing a
dead on ish Paul. And they don't

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even knowledge that really that it's Chris
Elliott. They just go with it,

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and it's amazing. That was the
thing. When Norm MacDonald was on SNL.

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People remember him mostly for his Weekend
Update, and but one of the

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things that Norm MacDonald did on SNL
was he imitated Dave. And it was

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funny watching Norm do that because one
of the things that he did, if

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you really look at it and deconstruct
it, all he was doing was just

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trying to imitate exactly what Dave was
doing, and it was really interesting.

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It wasn't like where you look at
when Dana Carvey would imitate Johnny Carson.

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He would put in some surrealistic things, not just Carcinio, but some of

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the other things he would put in. He would throw in some things there

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that made Johnny a little bit more
cartoonish or whatever. Norm didn't do that

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with Dave. Norm didn't do that
with Dave. Norm basically just acted the

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way that Dave did. But it
was so ridiculous because only Dave can act

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the way that Dave doesn't get away
with it, and it was just very

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very interesting to see the takes on
that. And I think Chris doing that

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with Paul is something very similar.
Paul Shaffer has the most amazing, you

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know, unique presence, personality,
delivery, wit character, because part of

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that is character of course for the
show, and when somebody else just imitates

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it but dead on, I think
that there's something that's funny about that.

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Doing this every day, sometimes I'll
go and I call them half ass impressions.

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They're not meant to be impressions.
But if I'll read a quote from

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somebody, I'll try and to approximate
their cadence, if that makes sense.

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And both Norm and Dave have an
if you're going to do a really lazy

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letterman impression my next guest, and
just it's that little uh. And Norm

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has that as well. Yes,
there's no question about that. Someone once

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told the like, it's funny when
I do these things. Someone once told

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the it's funny when I do these
things. I just did one right there.

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I don't have a lot of us
and OZ many times when you and

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I are communicating back and forth,
it's not like that. But when I'm

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hosting the show, I have some
of these little noises that I make and

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I want I watch Dave. I
swear to god it's because Dave has them

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too. And it's something that I
think there's a lot of people out there

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that are trying to be you know, there's a lot of stand ups out

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there who tried to be Hicks for
a long time, and I think that

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I think there are broadcasters out there
that try and be Dave in their delivery

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somehow, because he's got that Auschuck's
Midwestern not perfect, even though it is

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absolutely perfect. Delivery and like I
just said it there that sometimes I'll do

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that. But it's funny. When
I do these shows here, I don't,

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but when I'm hosting, I do
them. And Norm I could not

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agree more. Norm had this relaxed
style. There's a little bit of Canadian

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in it for sure. Every once
in a while I hear the Canadian in

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him come out. But I guess
say this to you, Okay, So

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we're talking Late Night Late Show Norm
MacDonald. Nor McDonald is one of the

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highlights of Late Show with David Letterman. For me, anytime that he was

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on it was an incredible thing,
including when he lost Weekend Update. He

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was fired from Weekend Update in the
season NBC pulls in and fires him.

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The very next day or the day
that it happened. He is on Paddel

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at Late Show with David Letterman and
they're talking about it, and Letterman's calling,

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oh, which exec was, it
doesn't matter one of the NBC executives

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that he knew, you know,
calling him a quizzling and doing all these

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things, and it's just it's this, it's beautiful exchange. Watching that to

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me is a little bit of Late
Night that was in Late show and Norm

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McDonald always provided that. And then
you know, after when Johnny Carson retired,

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he had this moment with Bette Middler. Middler sang the song to him

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Dave when he retired from Late Show. I think there were two moments that

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to me was like Dave's Bette Midler
moment. They were combined. One of

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them was a song that Adam Sandler
hit. The other one, though,

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was Norm MacDonald's last stand up set
on Late Show with David Letterman. Can

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you recall that? Do you remember
that set? Have you seen that?

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00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:50.879
Johnny? Yes, incredible might be
the greatest stand up set on a talk

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show ever. And you look at
those two guys, the mutual admiration from

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two very interesting personalities. Dave had
gone on record many times saying that Norm

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was his favorite comedian walking the planet
at that time, and Norm absolutely worshiped

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Dave. And when he came in
to do that set, was completely nervous.

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The scuttle but is the night before, whether it was at the Cellar,

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00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.519
he he bombed a lot of it. He was walking around the theater

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all day trying to figure out what
was going to go in that set,

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00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.720
what wasn't going to go in that
set, and it was just for anybody

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00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.759
out there who likes Norm MacDonald And
maybe you haven't seen that set in a

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while, go look at the last
Norm McDonald's set on Late Show with David

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Letterman. It is absolutely picture perfect. Norm's one of those guys that in

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death I feel like has been elevated
in class that we all rediscovered him instead

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of taking him for granted. Another
great rabbit hole to go down on YouTube

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is the insane amount of OJ jokes, which is what got him fired.

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00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.159
But there are these thirty five minute
compilations of just one liner is like Prince

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Charles has a new book. It's
called of Course OJ did it like just

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00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:00.600
but like that for thirty five minutes. Oh I know, and it is

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that same guy who ran NBC.
I just, oh, I keep forgetting

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00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:07.679
I don't know why normally I can
pull out these NBC executives like out of

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00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.879
the back of my no problem.
For some reason, it's just eluding me

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00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.799
right now. But yeah, he
was apparently friends with OJ, and so

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00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:18.519
the OJ jokes were just. But
it's so interesting though, because okay,

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00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.519
that's the case. Here's the thing
that I was wondering about though Norm MacDonald

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00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.320
targeted at SNL. But yet at
the same time, Jay Leno on The

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00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.120
Tonight Show, you know, has
the dancing ETOs, and they're making fun

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00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:31.879
of OJ and the trial and the
circus. They're making fun of that stuff

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00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:37.639
all the time. In fact,
Late Show with David Letterman didn't do that.

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00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:39.879
Dave went on record as to say, I don't find double homicide that

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00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.159
funny. They called me crazy,
but I don't find double homicide that funny,

249
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.759
and they didn't do what the finan
should. And part of that is

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00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:52.000
is one of the reasons why some
folks believe that Leno surged ahead again in

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00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.799
the ratings was part of that.
So there's a lot of irony there because

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00:15:54.799 --> 00:16:00.240
he's on NBC. Norm McDonald's getting
fired from a weekend Update, but Jay

253
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.440
Leno, no problem. That's the
entertainment industry. It's easy to fire the

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00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.519
part time or the producer, the
host. Can we replace the weekend Update

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00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.159
guy who's one of a twelve person
ensemble. Yes, can we mess with

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00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.440
the host of the Tonight Show.
That's front page of Variety and probably the

257
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.120
New York Times for six months.
It just the rules are never equal.

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00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.759
The entertainment business is not fair,
Oh that's for sure. And it's funny

259
00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.320
how Dave can certainly point to that
and how he was passed over for the

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00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.720
Tonight Show. I maintain, of
course it was the greatest thing that ever

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00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.519
could have happened to him, because
the industry was changing and he had such

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00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:37.440
a reverence for that franchise that it
was going to it was inevitable that the

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00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:41.679
Tonight Show. Like people don't understand
that today, they don't understand the dominance.

264
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.679
I don't know if there is a
show in any form of entertainment right

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00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:52.200
now that the Olympics might be the
one of the only like certain big sporting

266
00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.919
events might be one of the only
comparisons that might be apt. The Tonight

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00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:03.120
Show owned late night television. They
owned it for thirty years. They owned

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00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.400
it. They were dominant. There
was no counter programming. As good of

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a guy as Dick Cavot was and
is to this day, love him.

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He's one of my favorite broadcasters of
all time. He could not crack The

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00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.079
Tonight Show when it came to the
dominance in the ratings, our Sineo flash

272
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.960
in the pan in broad history,
but was changing television. He started to

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00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.839
for a little bit. But other
than that, the Tonight Show was dominant.

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00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:32.480
Nobody had ever touched it. But
at the time when Johnny retired,

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00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.240
things were starting to dilute. There
were more networks that were showing up.

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00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:38.440
There was more things that were coming
on to distract people or to put people's

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00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.160
attention elsewhere. And I just think
about if David Letiman would have got that

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00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.839
franchise that he loved so much,
and it would have been on his watch

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00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.599
that the industry would have changed and
the Tonight Show would have lost its dominance,

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00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.359
that would have been so sad.
But instead he got to be the

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00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.359
guy that walks across the street to
CBS, and he got to be the

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00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:00.240
guy that started shelling this thing,
lamparding this thing from across the street.

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00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.119
And the fact that there was even
a show that could even compete with The

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00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:08.799
Tonight Show was astounding. It was
unprecedented. Never mind the fact that they

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00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.240
beat them in the ratings for eighteen
months, when you could probably go really

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00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.240
far down this rabbit hole when it
came to the fact that CBS had a

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00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.960
massive disadvantage from affiliates from they on
paper should not have been able to beat

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00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.240
the Night Show in the ratings,
But yet they did it for eighteen months,

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00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.079
and then the fact that they would
go back and forth and be even

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00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.039
competitive with them for thirty years.
That was unprecedented. It had never happened

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00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.920
before. And I think if Dave
was the guy in the Tonight Show chair

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00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.200
where that happened, I think that
would have really been a sad thing for

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00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.279
him. But to be the guy
that actually walked across the street with Johnny

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00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.799
Carson's blessing to do that, man, it was so much better that he

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00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:45.480
got that show more worth Mike in
a second, don't forget. If you'd

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00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.559
like this podcast, add free link
in the show notes four ninety nine a

297
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.680
month. Go to Calaruga dot com
slash plus you can get this program and

298
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.799
a bunch of others on the network
commercial free just four nine nine nine a

299
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.000
month. If you'd like a National
Donus chain T shirt, those are for

300
00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:03.720
sale in the show notes and subscribe. Please into my substack. It's where

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00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.599
I pontificate about the media in the
written form. Mcteepod dot substack dot com.

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00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.599
Link in the show notes. Are
you affectionate for Conan? I feel

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00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.680
like I missed the boat on Conan, just because I was doing other things

304
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.519
in the nineties. But I feel
like once he found his fastball, Conan

305
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:26.480
spiritually picked up the it's twelve thirty, let's just try stuff vib Oh gosh.

306
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.559
Yeah. I love Conan O'Brien,
I love Robert Smigel. I would

307
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.279
watch Conan at first again a little
bit with with the John mulaney thing you

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00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.839
were talking about earlier. Okay,
what is this Because my mind, of

309
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.480
the four hosts that have hosted Late
Night, You've got Letterman, You've got

310
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.359
Conan, You've got Fallon, and
you got Seth. I think Conan's really

311
00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.759
the only one who wanted to take
the spirit of Late Night but make it

312
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.039
their own. Whereas Late Night may
have had a little bit more of a

313
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.119
sarcastic edge to it, Conan turned
that dial down and turned up zany.

314
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.039
But the creative stuff that they did, I did like him right at the

315
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.039
beginning, even during the shaky times, the times where he's getting week to

316
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:08.119
week commitments for a show he's about
to be canceled, about to be canceled.

317
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.759
I liked a lot of the stuff
that they were doing. I liked

318
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.000
Andy. I loved the stuff that
Robert Smigel came up with for them,

319
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:22.000
and I thought that they were really
inventive. It was certainly worthy of the

320
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.960
title of Late Night in my mind. But the idea that he was making

321
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.920
it completely his own to me was
completely evident as well, which I respect

322
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.960
the heck out of, especially now
with the benefit of hindsight. But at

323
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.480
the time, I just really liked
it. And I'll tell you this because

324
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.799
I really liked it. A couple
of years into it, or maybe eighteen

325
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:45.559
months into it, when Dave came
back and Dave was a guest on that

326
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.319
show, I was electric, Like
that was as a fan. I was

327
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.400
so happy the night that Dave came
back on. He didn't go on the

328
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.440
Tonight Show on NBC No, but
he did go back to Late Night,

329
00:20:57.079 --> 00:21:02.319
and then when Conan would start coming
on Late Show, and then they would

330
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.079
do things. Do you remember the
bit You weren't watching Late Show, so

331
00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.559
you might not have remembered this.
There's a really cool moment where Dave took

332
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.680
his stand by audience and sent them
to the Conan O'Brien show. Oh now,

333
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.240
they said a camera. They sent
a camera. Oh it's worth watching.

334
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:15.960
It is so funny and so he
sends a camera with them, so

335
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.480
there's a stand by audience. You're
going to see Conan tonight. They bring

336
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.799
them, brings them on the stage
of the Insulimon Theater and says, hey,

337
00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:23.960
good news, we're setting you to
see Conan. Camera there and then

338
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.400
you watch Conan, of course at
eleven at twelve thirty, I should say,

339
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:33.039
and you get to see the mirrored
response Letterman show showing up. And

340
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:34.920
it was just a beautiful little piece. I wish. I can't believe I've

341
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.200
actually even said to a couple of
writers, former writers for Letterman who now

342
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.960
worked for Fallon, I'm like,
why the heck don't Seth and Jimmy do

343
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.279
stuff like that? Like why don't
they call up Dave ask him if they

344
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.839
can do elevator races they're in the
same building and bring back some of these

345
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.160
old late night things in thirty rock. What if and you have team team

346
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.599
Seth and team Jimmy and you do
stuff like that. I love stuff like

347
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.480
that, And Dave and Conan used
to do that every once in a while

348
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.279
and it was a really cool thing. Yeah, I really liked Conan.

349
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.319
During Late Shift two, when Conan
went through his trouble Tonight. That's my

350
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.400
favorite run of Letterman of all time
other than the last six weeks. The

351
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.599
last six weeks was magic and perfect
with his run up. But my favorite

352
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.400
Letterman period in history. I'm the
host of the show. I love Late

353
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.559
Night. I understand the people who
love Late Night so much, But my

354
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:23.119
favorite period in Letterman history was the
time where Conan and Leno were going through

355
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.880
their stuff at the Tonight Show,
and every single night Dave on Late Show

356
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.519
was just, oh, it was
so great. And then he would have

357
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.079
Kimmel on and they would talk about
it and all of that stuff. That's

358
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.319
my favorite Letterman run in history is
in twenty ten. Yeah, Dave unleashed.

359
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.119
Maybe you could get a reunite the
cast from the Late Shift movie,

360
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:47.000
which if people haven't seen, is
probably somewhere on HBO Max. I love

361
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.960
that film. I know they made
fun of some of is it Daniel Roebucks

362
00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:55.640
prosthetics, But I thought that movie
was fantastic. It was really The Late

363
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.240
Shift as a book is, in
my opinion, one of the greatest.

364
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.839
Even know Bill Carter when he talks
about writing The Late Shift and the War

365
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.839
for Late Night for that matter,
The warf for Late Night is incredible and

366
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.319
I highly recommend that one as well. But he wrote it like a thriller.

367
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.319
He literally wrote it. Wrote this
book that is the behind the scenes

368
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:17.839
of late night talk shows and a
lot of executive talk and contracts and stuff

369
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:21.319
that would be considered boring by many. He wrote it like it was a

370
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:23.799
thriller, and it is a thriller. And so when the movie came out,

371
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.599
if you watch Bill Carter's first time
he appeared on The Letterman podcast,

372
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:33.920
he actually goes through the entire process
of the movie being made, and it's

373
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:37.960
incredible because they had a writer and
the writer totally didn't you know. He

374
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:44.000
wrote this fictitious scene of Dave and
Jay drinking together. I think they're having

375
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.079
a beer together. Famously, Leno
doesn't drink and Letterman stop drinking. And

376
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.599
so the producers of the of the
HBO guys come back to Bill and they're

377
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:53.200
like, what do you think of
this? And Bill's this is not my

378
00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:57.240
book. And so Bill ends up
going and writing the screenplay and it gets

379
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:00.079
made. So he tells that whole
story when he he's on the Letterman podcast.

380
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.839
His first time that he was on
the Letterman podcast, and we definitely

381
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.839
talk about some of the things.
But you look at the portrayal of Helen

382
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.559
Kushnik, incredible. She got nominated. Oh, Kathy Bates got nominated for

383
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.359
an Emmy for that, And yeah, the prosthetics were interesting, a rich

384
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.480
little being Johnny Carson now looking back
at it, Okay, that might be

385
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.319
a little campy. Yeah, but
it was a really fun movie and I

386
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.559
watch it. I'll watch it every
eighteen months still. It is on up

387
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.559
here in Canada. It's on the
HBO. We've got a thing called Crave

388
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.680
that has HBO and Showtime and everything
mixed into one. It's in the archives

389
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.240
there, and I'll watch it every
eighteen months or so. It's a really

390
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.720
fun movie. There are some elements
though that I'm not gonna say which writer,

391
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:44.720
but there's a couple of places where
they truncate the culture of a behind

392
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.960
the scenes of a late night television
show where's yeah, not even close happening

393
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:49.079
like that, and things like that. But there are a lot of elements

394
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.680
of it that are really fun and
it does a good overview of the story.

395
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:56.400
But it does not compare to reading
Bill's book. You can get a

396
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:02.359
digital copy of the Late Shift now
and Bill's actually added some extra material semi

397
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.319
currently, like within the last five
years, I think, and it's very

398
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.720
good. I highly recommend it.
Yeah, both books are great opera plugs

399
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.559
in for your podcast. Hopefully we
turn some new people onto it today.

400
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:15.599
One hundred and thirty episodes in,
that's a lot. We don't have one

401
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:18.960
hundred and thirty hours to kill.
So if we were going to pick five,

402
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:23.599
who do you want to point people
towards? Oh gosh, that's hard,

403
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.160
because Johnny seriously, Like last summer, for example, I had what

404
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.079
we call the Summer Intern Series on
and I had I think five interns,

405
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.440
folks who literally interned for the show, and some of them went on to

406
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:38.000
do some big things in entertainment and
whatnot. I love them just as much

407
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.160
as I love interviewing Robert Morton.
You know. That's the enthusiasm that I

408
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.240
take to the show, This puppy
dog type love and enthusiasm. So I

409
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:51.119
really have a hard time choosing because
I love them all, whether it's the

410
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:55.119
Obscure, whether it's a guy who
performed on stupid Human Tricks and he talks

411
00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:00.640
about his entire letterment experience all the
way to somebody like Steve O'Donnell, legendary

412
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.480
comedy writer. But that being said, if I was to pick five episodes,

413
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.359
I would probably pick Paul Shaeffer.
I would probably pick Dick Cabott.

414
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.440
I would probably pick Robert Morton.
Early on, we had Steve O'Donnell on

415
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.319
and I certainly hadn't hit my stride, or if I have a stride now,

416
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.079
I hadn't hit whatever it is that
I have now, but at that

417
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.039
point. But I still I love
Steve to this day. He's a good

418
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:23.119
friend. And then another writer as
well, Steve Young. He's been on

419
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.920
multiple times. Steve and I are
are friends now. He did the documentary

420
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.599
Bathtubs over Broadway, and so I've
had him on and we've talked about all

421
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.440
sorts of stuff. We're you gotta
actually have him on. He just released

422
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:34.880
a comedy album, and we're gonna
have him back on with a listening party

423
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.160
with a few Letterman alum on there
as well, and we're trying to make

424
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:41.480
the show to do some fun stuff
with the show as well. But those

425
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:47.359
five episodes, probably Cabots is a
talking to Dick Cavott, and I'm talking

426
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.960
to a broadcaster here. So I
don't think it takes much to imagine the

427
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.160
honor that was having him on the
show. That was an incredible moment.

428
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:57.000
When check he passed away, we
did a tribute episode to him, and

429
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.759
then the very next week, which
is just me talking to camera for ninety

430
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.559
minutes. Imagine that. I don't
recommend that, but it was a special

431
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.839
moment. And then the next week
Alex Bennett came on and we talked about

432
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:10.359
his connections to Letterman and of course
to Sheky as well. We've had some

433
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:14.200
great moments on the show. It's
I'm really proud, and as somebody who

434
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.680
suffered with imposter syndrome of a financial
planner by trade when I was a little

435
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.200
kid, if you had asked me
what my dream John was, it didn't

436
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.599
exist. I wanted to be a
ghostbuster. The job didn't exist. And

437
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.480
if you would have said to me
even five years ago, Mike, one

438
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.799
day, you're going to host the
Letterman podcast, I would have said,

439
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.759
I would have looked at you like
you had three eyes. Like when Rupert

440
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:36.000
g the owner of the Hello Deli, retired, I went up to New

441
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.920
York and I spoke in the Ed
Sullivant Theater in the Ed Sullvant Theater,

442
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.079
the Worldwide Pants Thru in a party
for him, and I got to speak

443
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.960
at that party, and it's are
you kidding me? And I got to

444
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.880
actually say some things that actually elicited
an emotional response from an audience of about

445
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:55.279
one hundred folks who worked for Letterman
over the years. I'm so grateful and

446
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.359
I can't believe that this has happened. So I don't know if people think

447
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.279
the show is good or not good. I just know that it is one

448
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.839
of the greatest honors of my life, and it brings so much joy to

449
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.240
host that show, and the experiences
I've gotten from it is just it's unparalleled.

450
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.480
Are the bookings getting easier because they
have a track record now, so

451
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:14.960
you're not some rando who's going to
do five of these and quit with one

452
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.319
hundred and thirty and some people that
the others have heard of? Is it

453
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.440
the cool party to be at a
little easier to get people a little bit

454
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:22.920
of Colum, a little bit of
columb It's funny. There are some folks

455
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.559
who gave me the absolute green light
yes early on, and now they're getting

456
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.960
sheepish about it because it's so funny
because I just say, no, just

457
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.880
come on, we just have a
conversation, just would be you. But

458
00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:37.240
they're sheepish about it because of a
variety of different reasons. But part of

459
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:40.599
it is the fact that, oh, you had Steve young on all these

460
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.440
times, you had Steve O'Donnell on, you had more toy on. What

461
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.720
could I bring to this? You
get some of that. Some of the

462
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.119
heavy hitters were reluctant before and they're
still reluctant now, but there are a

463
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.279
few who are coming around because of
exactly what you said as well. So

464
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.960
there's a little bit of both.
If you get Dave, is that good

465
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:00.720
or bad? No, that's a
great question. It's good, absolutely good,

466
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.640
There's no doubt about that. But
the show is not over because again,

467
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:08.200
the Letterman Podcast is a celebration of
the greatest body of broadcasting work in

468
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.599
history, that of David Letterman and
Company, and the company is equal,

469
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.839
if not greater, to Dave.
A Dave is a part of it,

470
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:21.079
and that's how we view this and
Checky and I talked about that was one

471
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.000
of the things about the show that
we talked about. The guy who was

472
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.480
on Stupid Human Tricks and at a
life changing moment because of it, and

473
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.160
got all these extra bookings and things
because of it, and his life was

474
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.599
changed because of that moment. Is
equally as important as if David Letterman comes

475
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:38.079
on in how I present it now. Obviously having him on would be an

476
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:41.680
incredible moment. It wouldn't be the
end of the show, though, because

477
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.559
the show focuses on his body of
work, and so I would love I

478
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.200
hope to have him on. So
far, I've had a polite no.

479
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.440
I don't think the door has closed
forever. The polite no is not what

480
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.720
we do. I think if we
get to a certain place, that might

481
00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:03.759
change. I also think if the
beauty of serendipity comes into things and something

482
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.119
happens where though just the right combination
of events or doors open, it could

483
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.279
happen as well. But it would
be definitely be a good thing. You've

484
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.240
been very generous with your time.
This has been awesome. We're let me

485
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.519
see, we are like twenty percent
over what I even asked you for.

486
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.640
So I will let you go and
hopefully we can connect again somewhere down the

487
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.400
road. But this was really fantastic. Anytime. I will do this anytime

488
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:30.200
and talk about this stuff for sure. I love it. You're a fantast.

489
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.480
Obviously you're a pro. You're a
seasoned pro, and I appreciate this

490
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.480
so very much. It's guys like
you I wish I would have had a

491
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:40.640
moment where I could have been given
the permission to chase my dreams. I

492
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.359
would have gone into broadcasting. I
appreciate where you guys. I appreciate the

493
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.720
skill set that you have. I
really do, and I'm glad that you're

494
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:52.079
still doing it after all this time
and not too jaded from watching this industry

495
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.359
that you have been a part of
that has changed in so many ways to

496
00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.039
where it is now. I'm so
grateful that you're doing what you're doing.

497
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:00.599
It inspires me to do what I'm
doing. Thank you so much, shawnny

498
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.960
Oh, you are too kind.
I hope you enjoyed that one. I

499
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.279
love geeking out about Letterman. I
wish I had known about Mike when Late

500
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.400
Night turned forty em back in twenty
twenty two and we were kind of still

501
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.960
in the pandemic and doing major filler
some weekends. I think I did a

502
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.720
month of Letterman back then. If
you want to scroll back through the archives,

503
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.039
maybe I'll resurface those. I'll put
those in the feed as bonus episodes

504
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.119
or something. Not today, maybe
next weekend. Let me think about that,

505
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.799
all right. The Letterman podcast wherever
you get your podcasts, and in

506
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.480
the Facebook group Today Daily Comedy News
podcast group. I have scheduled a few

507
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.000
things, a couple of Chris Elliot
things and some other stuff to check out.

508
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.799
All right, hope you enjoyed that. I'll see tomorrow.