May 25, 2025
The Mount Rushmore of Late Night Comedy
Johnny Mac delves into the history and key figures of late-night television. He discusses the important contributions of hosts like Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson, David Letterman, Jay Leno, and Conan O'Brien. By comparing them to the symbolic representation of actual presidents on Mount Rushmore, John evaluates their legacies and longevity. Ultimately, he establishes his 'Mount Rushmore' of late night,
00:00 Introduction to the Mount Rushmore of Late Night
00:26 The History of Late Night TV
01:54 Mount Rushmore of Late Night: The Real Presidents
02:31 Legacy and Longevity in Late Night
04:49 Case Studies: Steve Allen and Jack Parr
07:30 Case Studies: Johnny Carson and Tom Snyder
08:12 Case Studies: David Letterman and Jay Leno
10:15 Case Studies: Jon Stewart and Arsenio Hall
12:20 Case Studies: Conan O'Brien
13:50 Final Picks for the Mount Rushmore of Late Night
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Callaroga Shark Media. Hi there, Johnny meg And for today's
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daily Comedy News, We're going to take a look at
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the Mount Rushmore of Late Night. I've been thinking about
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this one a lot, so I will share with you
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the history of Late Night off the top of my head,
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then a look at why the actual presidents are on
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the actual Mount Rushmore. And I even used AI to
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help me focus my thoughts here and it was really
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really helpful, So I will share all that. Let's do
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the history of Late Night off the top of my head,
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no notes. So they were cavemen. They had no late
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night shows until Steve Allen came along and hosted the
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first four or five years of the Tonight Show. We'll
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talk about Steven a bit. He did a lot of
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things that you saw throughout the ages, including a lot
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of influence on Letterman. So then he gets too busy
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to keep the show and passes it off to Jack Parr,
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who does a quote unquote smarter version of the show
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and introduces a lot of things that became late night staples.
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Next up, Johnny Carson, and I think for purposes of
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this episode, if you listen to this podcast, I don't
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have to explain Johnny to anybody. So let's just accept
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right now, Johnny Carson's on them Mount Rushmore, right, we
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know that's going to happen. Johnny hangs around for thirty years.
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At some point they expand to twelve thirty and Tom
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Snyder hosts a show. Tom Snyder gives way to David
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Letterman's twelve thirty show. Letterman hopes that he'll get the
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Tonight's Show, but nope, they give it to permanent guest
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host Jay Leno, who hosts the Tonight Show for a while.
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Letterman goes to CBS, and for the first time, we
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really have two competitive late night shows. I know there
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was Dick Cavin and Joey Bishop and some other things
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we'll talk about our senio, but it's really the first
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time that the Tonight Show isn't just the only game
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in town. Letterman rides out his time on CBS. Jay
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Leno passes the Tonight Show off to Conan O'Brien for
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five minutes. Jay takes it back, and eventually we wind
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up in the air of fallon Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel.
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And that's the brief history of late Night. Okay, Hey,
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we'll use that as a focal lens as for the
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actual Mount Rushmore, because if we're doing the Mount Rushmore
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of Late Night, I thought that would be an interesting
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lens in which to look at this. George Washington represents
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the birth and founding of the nation as the first president.
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Think about that. Thomas Jefferson symbolizes expansion, particularly the Louisiana
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purchase and his role in writing the Declaration of Independence.
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Abraham Lincoln represents the preservation of the Union, and Theodore
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Roosevelt embodies the nation's development. Is known for his conservation
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efforts the Panama Canal and his role in the industrial boom,
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and a bit of a maverick. And I think we
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can find some inspiration there, all right. Who has hosted
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the most years in Late Night? David Letterman at thirty
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three years, Wow, Johnny Carson did thirty Conan twenty eight,
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Bill Maher, who hasn't come up in these discussions at all,
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twenty two years in Late Night. So I think that's
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the equivalent of a guy in baseball who's just accumulating
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stats and nobody ever went there's the best player in
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the game, and sometimes those guys make the Hall of Fame.
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Bill's not getting a spot on Mount Rushmore. Jay Leno
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also twenty two years in Late Night. Jimmy Kimmel already
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at twenty years, How is that possible? So? Is Kimmel
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gonna pass Leno and again quietly accumulating stats might make
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some sort of Late Night Hall of Fame because of it?
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But is there a legacy of Jimmy Kimmel? I don't
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think so. Stephen Colbert in his two forms at nineteen,
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John Stewart at seventeen in counting, Jimmy Fallon sixteen in counting,
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Andy Cohen, who hasn't come up at all in these
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discussions sixteen years in counting. So we talk about legacy
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and longevity. On the legacy front, Arsenio Hall absolutely has
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a legacy. He does not have longevity. The Arsenio Show
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ran from January third, nineteen eighty nine, until May twenty seventh,
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nineteen ninety four. Not very long, right, five years. There
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was a reboot in twenty thirteen. Do you remember that?
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I don't either. The reboot ran from September ninth, twenty
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thirteen to May twenty first, twenty fourteen. It's one season.
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Also Arsenio had taken over for Joan Rivers on The
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Late Show in nineteen eighty seven when Joan was fired.
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He hosted it for thirteen weeks and was unexpectedly popular.
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So that's legacy. He definitely has a legacy. We'll talk
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more about him. Longevity is Jay Leno, but I'm not
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sure Jay has legacy. Some folks worth mentioning that aren't
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really part of this conversation. Dickkevit, Joey Bishop, Pat Sayjack Magic, Johnson,
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Chevy Chase, Jerry Lewis had a show for a week,
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like literally one week. Jon Stewart had a show. Did
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David Bernner have a show on ABC for a while,
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I think he did. Joan Rivers comes up a lot.
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She hosted from October ninth, nineteen eighty six to May fifteenth,
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nineteen eighty seven. That is not a long time to
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put somebody on Mount Rushmore. We can put Joan in
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the Late night Hall of Fame for sure, but not
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on Mount Rushmore. All right, Let's look at the case
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for some of these folks. Steve Allen widely credited with
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popularizing the man on the Street interview segment, a staple
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of late night TV. He often featured recurring characters comedic sketches,
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sometimes involving audience participation. He was known for his quick
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wit and improv skills. Steve Allen hosted The Tonight Show
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from nineteen fifty four to nineteen fifty seven. He blended
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stand up comedy, interviews, musical performances, and quirky segments, known
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for making prank phone calls on the show. If I
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had to compare him to Mount Rushmore, he's the George Washington,
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representing the birth and the founding of the nation as
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the first president. Strong case for Steve Allen, he passes
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off to Jack Parr. Jack hosted Tonight from July twenty ninth,
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nineteen fifty seven to March thirtieth, nineteen sixty two. Let
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me read to you from his oh bit in The
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New York Times in two thousand and four. Jack Parr,
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the prickly, often emotional and always unpredictable humorist who turned
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late night TV into a national institution when he was
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the host of The Tonight Show, passed away at a
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eighty five. John O'Connor wrote in The Times in nineteen
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ninety seven. Before Jack Parr, there were various variety shows.
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Doing the midnight watch, he simplified the format into a
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talk show, complete with the sofa and desk set that
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remains a fixture of his secret interesting guests, far more
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so than the celebrity hordes working on product plugs today,
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and an uncanny ability to listen carefully and actually engage
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in clever and often witty conversation William Grimes observed in
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the Times. Long before David Letterman, mister Parr had an
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anarchic streak that inspired him to pair guests like Liberaci
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and Cassius Clay, or Jane Mansfield and Joshauh Gabor to
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get in the ring with a professional wrestler, or to
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shuffle the que cards in the middle of a Robert
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Gulay Judy Gorylan duet that almost sounds like Malaniy's show.
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When network sensors excised at joke about a water closet
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for young ings that's a code for toilet. From the
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show's broadcast in February nineteen sixty, Parr walked off the
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show the next night in protest, leaving announcer Hugh Downs
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to finish the show. Parr didn't return until three weeks
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later on March seventh, He strolled on a stage, struck
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a pose and said, as I was saying, so, I
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asked the AI, what's the case for Jack Parr? Y A,
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I wrote, Steve Allen created the format. Jack Parr gave
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it a soul. Right, that's pretty good. AI. Before Parr
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Late Night was mostly stunts, bits and variety acts. Part
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turned the Tonight show in a place for smart, engaging
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and awful emotional conversations. He brought humanity to a format
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that could have easily stayed shallow and silly. He made
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the interview the heart of the show, not just as
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a publicity stop, but as a space for real talk.
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He can draw a straight line from Parr to Dick Cavett,
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to Letterman to John Stewart. If Allan is the architect,
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Parr is the guy who walked into the house and
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made it feel alive. Strong case for Jack Parr. There
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next up Johnny Carson. Again, if you're listening to this show,
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I don't explain Johnny Carson to you. He's on. I
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forgot to ask it to make a case for Tom Snyder.
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Let me do that. I'm tipping my hand there that
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Tom Snyder didn't make it. But the AI writes, before
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let him in, before Conan, before Stewart, there was Snyder.
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The Tomorrow Show debuted in seventy three, airing after Carson.
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Snyder eventually invented the post midnight talk show format. He
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was on the stand up. He wasn't goofy. He was
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just Tom intense, curious, and weirdly mesmerizing. David Letterman idolized
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Tom Snyder. When Letterman moved to CBS in ninety three,
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he handpicked Snyder to host the Late Late Show. I
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forgot that even happened. Yeah, because he wanted someone who
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wasn't doing a comedy show, just compelling conversation. That's legacy power.
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Onto David Letterman, the AI writes, If there's not a
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place for him on the mountain, then blow the whole
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thing up and start over. Dave rebuilt Late Night as
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something weirder, sharper, and more ironic. When Late Night with
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David Letterman premiere in eighty two. He didn't try to
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out Carson Carson. He created a punk rock version of
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the talk show, remote segments in diners, elevator races, stupid petricks,
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and top ten lists that made no sense. He mocked
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the genre as he mastered it without Dave. There's no Conan,
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no Kimmel, no Colbert, no Felon, no Seth, just a
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bunch of guys trying to be mini Carson's all right,
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let me flip over another card. Carson Letterman, Letterman is
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on the Mount Rushmore. Is there a case for Jay Leno?
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I went back and forth with this. The AI says, Yeah,
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there's a case for Jay Leno on the late night
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Mount Rushmore. But it's not the case you'd make for Letterman,
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Conan or Carson. Leno doesn't make them out on cool
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points or creative innovation. He makes it on a different
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kind of strength dominance. Leno may not have been the
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critics darling, but the guy crushed the ratings. For the
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better part of two decades, The Tonight Show with Jay
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Leno was the most watched late night show in America.
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He beat Letterman, He beat everyone. If late night was
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a sport, Jay was the guy stacking up wins while
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the others are getting profile pieces in The New Yorker.
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Viewers liked him, Middle America liked him. NBC liked his
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ad revenue. That kind of commercial dominance counts in any
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Hall of fame. The guy wrote his own jokes, stayed
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up reading the wires, and was known for outworking everybody
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he spoke to a different America. Letterman was New York cool,
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Conan was Harvard weird. Stuart and Colbert were political. But
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Jay talked to your uncle who watches Wheel of Fortune
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thinks oj jokes are still hilarious. That matters. He connected
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with a vast part of the country that didn't want
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edge or irony. Just a guy in Denham telling safe
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jokes about politicians and celebrities. It kept the Tonight Show
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accessible and mainstream at a time when the rest of
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Late Night was getting sharper, snarky, ear and narrower. Even
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Letterman called him the best stand up in the country
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back in the day. Strong case for Jay Leno, I
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mean he did beat David Letterman. He kept the Tonight
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Show going for two more decades. Should we put him
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up on the mountain? Nah? Yeah, let's circle back. Let's
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see Carson Letterman two more. The case for John Stewart.
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He turned Late Night into a weapon. Before John Stewart
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took over the Daily Show in ninety nine, Late Night
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was mostly entertainment, monologues, movie plugs, the occasional political jab
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Stuart flipped that he made comedy delivery system for truth.
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Satshire became sharp punch lines carried purpose. If you like
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Last Week Tonight, Thanks Stuart, Colbert report full frontal at
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Stan b Hassan Minhaj's Patriot Act, even the later years
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of Weekend Update, that's Stuart's legacy. Yes, he was funny,
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but when it came time to drop the joke, Stuart
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could cut through the noise like nobody else alive. His
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monologue after nine to eleven, his brutal eviseration of cross Fire,
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his takedown of Congress over the nine to eleven First Responders,
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Bill Stewart captured the politically aware millennial who distrusted mainstream
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media but still want to know what the hell was
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going on. He didn't try to reach everyone. He asked
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his audience clearly and honestly, and they trusted him more
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than the news anchors. Multiple studies found Stewart was one
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of the most trusted news sources for young Americans in
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the two thousands. Clearly a case for the Late Night
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Hall of Fame, which is a different discussion. I think
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everybody I'm mentioning on the show is in the Late
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night Hall of Fame. But mount Roushmore, Carson, Letterman, you
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get two more. I'm not putting John up. The case
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for Arsenio Hall again, legacy with a capital L longevity. No,
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he had the it factor, the barking crowd, the fingerspin entrance,
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the appointed questions delivered with charm. Arcinio had a charisma
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that connected. He wasn't trying to be Carson, he was
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being himself, and America shot up for it. In his prime,
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he beat Johnny Carson in the ratings with younger viewers
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that was unthinkable. He made being on his couch just
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as valuable as Carson's. He changed politics on Late Night,
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before the Daily Show, before Colbert, before Fellon and slow
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jam the news. There was our Senio playing the sacks
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with Bill Clinton wasn't a gimmick. That moment is widely
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credited with helping Clinton win over younger viewers and reshaping
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how politicians approached pop culture. He made it cool to
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mix politics and entertainment. He built a lane that didn't
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exist before and made sure others could follow. Hall of Fame. Yes,
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Mountain top I can't. I've only got two spots left,
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Carson Letterman and two more. Let's talk about Conan O'Brien.
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I started thinking about Conan, and I'm like, are we
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